I started using Xert at the end of June, as my TT season wasn’t going as well as I’d have liked. Always felt tired, never had good legs despite ticking of the workouts each week in my TR plan. Since then the last few weeks have been great, some good results 2nd/3rd, an increase in my threshold but the best thing is I’m doing more volume but feeling fresher.
I’ve used TR for a few years now and constantly have struggled with the VO2 workouts, having above threshold zones pegged at a percentage of 20mins x .95 or even the ramp test doesn’t do it for me anymore, maybe the emphasises on building LTP in Xert has done me some good, it’s not perfect by any means, you do have to take time and use a bit of faith getting used to it, but once you get it dialled in it’s very good. I’d love to see TR adopt a more personalised ‘zones’ or ’ optimised intervals’ system rather than an FTP test every few weeks.
Tried xert as well. Did not like having to do these max efforts regularly to keep the fitness signature updated. Max efforts are not really part of my training. Then, I find it to high-effort centric. And it’s simply to complicated, little bit like a gambling machine, when you hit the button "recalculate you signature ".
I just do fartlek workouts. I havent’t felt like intervals this year. As a result, I don’t know that I have true max efforts on my power curve, but Xert doesn’t need that, per se. You just need to bust MPA for 5 seconds. Sometimes it says I do that.
Here’s today – some sweet spot, then some VO2, then some tempo and :30s, then one hard hill and some more sweet spot.
You can set the algorithm to “No Decay” if you don’t expect to do any breakthroughs for a period. Your signature will no longer decay, and will adjust up automatically matching with training load. Xert’s Magic Setting – Signature Decay – Xert
Now that I’ve used TR for a year, I’ve learned so much about fitness theory.
just 3 days ago, I’ve discovered Xert, and I’m basically obsessed over this.
I’ve found that Xert can’t guess my FTP accurately from my historical TR ramp tests unless I manually adjust the Peak power.
I’m just wondering, if anyone here uses both simultaneously, How do you utilize each system?
I’m not sure which to trust. based on The article, Sweet spot, Threshold, and Polarized training by the numbers It just seems to make a ton of sense that maybe i should be listening to Xert a little bit when it comes to training zones and not blindly trusting TR to recommend zones purely based on %FTP. (I’ve read the forum discussions about the article, I don’t want to get in the weeds about that theory.)
Below are a list of Ideas I have written in question form to express my confusion.
Do you let Xert’s fitness signature influence your training choices in the TR workout plans? Do you do maximal effort tests with Xert? Raise/Lower TR FTP to match what Xert says it should be? Raise/lower TR workout intensity of VO2 max workouts to push yourself such that you deplete more of your MPA? Lower the Intensity of the SST workouts such that they are closer to the Xert LTP? Only Use Xert on Garmin headunits for outdoor unstructured riding to tell you MPA and TTE?
Do you listen to XATA’s workout recommendations and just pick TR workouts that fit?
I use both actively. Like i go over planner daily but I also like the 6 week rolling window analysis on TR.
With the data i have my Xert signature is very accurate. Sometimes i adjust MPA, but few races later its back where it was. TR ramp test gives me TP very similar to that derived from Ronnestad type workouts, or a time trial.
A tip: use hour power value or slightly above for TR, TP and FTP are different things and TP might be too high. FTP is an hour power prediction anyway, so it should be a good match.
I use XATA advice and hand pick TR workouts because i really like TR player for Android.
Basic advice is to use whatever workout that matches your selected focus and drains MPA to the desired level. So you can have your headunit alongside displaying focus and time to exhaustion/recovery. This can be used pretty much the same way with whatever app you choose, and outside as well.
Also, training plans don’t work for me, but general understanding what type of work i should be doing during given macro period, and how much, works very well! XATA and Garmins advisor come very useful when i have too much of one thing and not enough of another (e. g. Endurance vs VO2MAX)
To that end, maybe i need to quit using ERG except for LSD… because if i’m just riding to ERG during my SST/FTP/VO2 workouts, i’m not able to adjust my efforts up/down such that the i can drain a desired amount of MPA or hitting the desired focus?
is this the hour power that I see in Xert’s model?
what is Garmin advisor? Just the training thing that I see on the garmin edge 830 head unit?
People often do it that way. You can also see how much time you need to accumulate at certain intensity and use it as guide. I am forced to ride north of 12 hours a week on a trainer during more than third of a year, so i tend to shift between different approaches
If you are simultaneously recording the workout on the garmin headunit and the TR android app,
how do you avoid getting duplicate workouts on strava or TR?
I’ve struggled to trust the Garmin head unit adviser because i’m not entirely sure if it is able to account for all my training on TR…
Thanks for your patience as i barrage you with questions lol… thanks for all your answers.
How does Xert react to your TR ramp tests? are they breakthroughs or does the TP usually drop?
I do not think that my Xert signature is naturally very accurate based on the data I’ve given it… when i load in my last 3 months of power data from strava, the TP is quite low and the PP is quite high.
I used the advanced MPA tool on each of my ramp tests where I adjusted the PP down until the Xert TP fitness signature matched the TR FTP. Was that a bad idea?
Yeah, that’s likely not quite right. TP for most people will be higher than FTP. I would do a hard race against a stronger field or a climb simulation and try to get a breakthrough and ride to failure. Then you can adjust your signature in advanced MPA tab to match your feelings. And keep accumulating quality data.
This isn’t TR related discussion anymore, maybe it is better to move it to Xerts forum…
There is a workout in the Xert library for getting a breakthrough and from that an accurate signature, go to workouts and use the search bar, a few will come up, there is a specific one for doing on a trainer. I wouldn’t use ERG mode for it as you want to be able to put out maximal power.
If you can ride outdoors a good test to generate a good signature is to warm up properly, then do 5 or 6 30 full seconds gas with 15 second recoveries, after the last one ride above threshold for as long as you are able, just as you start to struggle to hold the power do an out of the saddle all out sprint, this should result in a breakthrough and reset your signature. I’ve been using Xert for a while now and find it very good, takes a bit of getting used to, it’s a different approach, but it has paid off for me. They are very helpful and if you are struggling they will respond very quickly if you contact them.