Anybody watch "The Game Changers"?

Good documentary to watch on a 1.5 hour endurance ride. I went vegan a few years back after listening to Lance Armstrong’s Podcast with Rip Esselstyn of Engine 2. I had mixed success but I ended up going back to eating some poultry and dairy (chicken breasts, eggs, and greek yogurt). I mainly went back because the cost and time to prep meals was just too much.

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Check out Peter Attia’s site. He addresses the problem with that movie in detail in his latest r-mail.

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My favourite part was when they spoke to Carl Lewis… two time gold medalist…

No mention of the fact he was done for doping… more than once.

Ermagherd, vegan!!

Surprised they didn’t interview Lance Armstrong and Jobe Watson

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I’ve watched it and found it to be an interesting point of view. Would it convince me that I should wholesale change my diet? No.

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Very similar, I think there are few people in my life who wouldn’t benefit on a little less meat and more plant based food BUT it was also extremely one sided, many of the ‘studies’ they cited were completely unscientific (they did raise that point) for example if the erection one is so startling why haven’t they done it on a wide scale?

I watched it and well done movie but leaves out a lot truth. They bring a small sample size of genetic freaks to try to prove their point but what were they eating before? Also if you google most of those athletes they end up injured or retired after a year or two of going vegan. What was there diet prior to going vegan?

It isn’t meat or vegetables that are killing us it is processed crap. I am not the picture of shape when folks ask me what to eat I just say eat food without labels. If it comes with a label pass it by.

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Has he done a podcast on this? I listen to all I can find of his stuff.

Why less meat? Just wondering why you think that?

I watched it, it was very compelling, the only issue I had was that there was no counter argument to anything they were saying. It did however make me want to at least try some of the things they said.

I also think there is a big difference between “being vegan” and “adopting a plant based diet”. Vegan as I see it is more about ideology and ethics whilst plant based diet is just about looking to see what benefits it has to me as an individual.

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I enjoyed the documentary. I think a key point to take away from it, is that it debunks the myth that we can’t survive without animal products, because we clearly can. Thus answering the question of whether a carnivorous diet is necessary.

Putting the ethical/moral argument from the animals point of view aside, there is so much comprehensive science out there now about how animal agriculture is the leading cause in the destruction of our rain forests and driver of climate change. As a race, the best thing we can do for our survival is adopt a plant based diet.

But also on an individualistic point of view, a plant based diet has shown time and time again (lots of science on this too, check out What The Health on Netflix or nutritionfacts.org) to reverse heart disease, type 2 diabetes, lower blood pressure and cholesterol and fight cancer - the biggest killers of humans today.

So again, if it’s not necessary, but actually beneficial for our personal health and survival of our planet, why not adopt the message of the film?

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I watch all the food documentaries I can get my hands on as I enjoy them vs normal TV stuff. So I have watched What the Health but it is another extremely biased documentary. There has been lots of articles that debunk that documentary also.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kzz7e3/there-is-almost-no-good-science-in-the-movie-what-the-health

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I thought it was quite an interesting programme, I had it on in the background and to be honest it was only really about an hour in that it dawned on me it was just about switching to vegan, never actually used the words so people would listen to the arguments without putting up barriers.

I’ve tried to cut a bit of meat out of my diet after this, and am going to sample some almond/soya milk. I still have eggs every morning and will have meat when I fancy it but if cutting down will make me faster then why not.

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Massive links with meat consumption and cancer and the fact that the met industry has a massive carbon footprint

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The author of that article is also biased as he himself points out. I don’t want to go down the debunking route here, there are videos debunking the debunkers etc. For example Mic the Vegan debunks Joe Rogan’s debunking quite convincingly.

The bias in Game changers is very clear and the examples are very cherry picked - I mean, I myself am very biased, but for good reason. I test myself too, I’ve gone from heavy meat and cheese eating diet to having been plant based for 5 years now. My blood tests show all markers are optimal - it’s exactly in line with the narrative of these ‘biased’ pro-vegan films. It’s not scientific, it’s anecdotal because I am the only test subject, but personally that’s all I need.

The information from these film/documentaries are the cause for that - personally I should be forever grateful and I hope they touch as many people as possible to achieve the same benefit. Not to mention the environment and ethical implications of a non-vegan diet.

The main take away from what I’m trying to say is that if you are serious about your own nutrition and looking for performance benefits in your diet, you should be testing yourself objectively. These Netflix film/documentaries hold true for me on a personal level.

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It’s Netflix, might as well add “Based on a True Story” slide to the start.

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PSA: If you’re going to point to science backing up claims, please link to the peer reviewed papers.

My opinion of the documentary… Yeah it was good, I wish they’d stop using veganism as a cure-all. “What the Health?” was particularly guilty of this and clearly had an agenda when speaking to health professionals - one doctor, quite rightly, refused to speak to them.

Unscientifically, I don’t see any reason that meat needs to be included in the diet for most people (including athletes). Anything the body needs should be obtainable from a plant based diet, except B12 - anyone using that as an argument should probably have a look at supplementation of livestock. Also, you literally have to eat plants, you can’t just live off chips (french fries) and expect to be healthy.

So, while Netflix needs to up their game when it comes to scientific literacy (and they can afford it), so do we. I’ll post some references when I get time, along the lines of:

  • Going vegan does not cure all diseases
  • High meat consumption MAY increase risk of heart disease (but may also be other dietary factors)
  • Plant proteins are not “whole”, you have to mix the plants to get the right balance.

In the meantime, this gal knows her stuff:

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where are the links?

I’ll give this guy a try - seems a lot of overlap for the topics I’m interested in (never dying).

Here’s the link to the article for anyone interested:

I think he explains the problems perfectly - veganism is not a cure-all. Meat and dairy can be part of a healthy balanced diet, you just have to pay attention to what you eat.

Personally, for environmental reasons, I’m trying to wean myself off poultry and dairy (beef, pork, lamb already out of my diet due to ethical and environmental reasons). I do wish people would stop making these ridiculous claims about plants and focus on the facts - it’s like the new global warming!

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Something which is almost never mentioned is the one thing which we (mostly) cannot control: genetics.

If heart disease etc is hard coded into your DNA, it’s going to show up at some point in your life, regardless if you eat plants or meat.

As stated, the ‘gold standard’ diet would be based on an individual and their DNA; a diet of supplementation and/or inhibition to promote the highest level of health.

For example, my n=1 has me living with naturally low-normal hemoglobin/hematocrit. When I supplement with iron (pill and/or cow), those markers increase to median-normal, which also increases my overall health.

Some people might actually require meat. Some people may actually need to live exclusively on plants. Some generalisations are better/more true than others, but specificity will always be the best for your individual health.

So instead of lobby groups pushing for more plant-based money or more livestock money, maybe scientists should be pushing for more standard lab testing money.

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Just another documentary showing that when you care about things you eat, you get healthier.
It is totally possible to make the same documentary with people on less restricted diets, the problem is that it wouldn’t live up to the hype.

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