Can I test my aerobic base?

Try this one…if you search for maf test you’ll find all the info you’ll need

Not sure why MAF felt the need to make up a new name for AeT.

The 180 Formula is not a replacement for properly executed laboratory tests that determine the AerT, Fatmax and other metrics, although it usually corresponds with them. Given that the 180 Formula is applicable to a majority of the population, it can help individuals monitor workouts, improve fitness and build health. This makes it very useful to those who do not have access to regular laboratory testing.

I’d say to distinguish it from lab derived metrics/threshold(s) … and probably helps for the marketing as well.

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You don‘t need the 180 Formula. It is a rough estimate to find the aerobic treshold. Since you allteady know your heartrate at ftp, your aeT HR is 80% of your ftp HR.

Although, if you got a huge aerobic base, there might be just a little space between aeT Hr and FTP Hr.

I think he is trying to make it clear and simple as there are a few different definitions for aerobic threshold, depending on who you ask. It gives you a something solid as a reference and a way to test your aerobic base, which is what you asked for?

We’re all welcome to go and pay for a real test in a lab…which I did and my actual aerobic threshold HR was measured at 143, if I used maf to calculate it, it would’ve been 144. And that’s good enough for me

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@teamkennyg When I calculated my MAF HR I get 135 bpm. When I did a talk test (thanks to @sryke suggestion), my HR at VT1 was 143bpm. VT1 will correlate much more closely to what you’re after than MAF. I understand using formulas except when you don’t have to.

Maffetone formula (along with all its caveats) get you in the neighborhood. But I use a HR cap for long(ish) endurance work and I consider 143bpm to be very very different than 135.

You get this then you don’t have to use % of FTP for these types of rides, which as you’re seeing can vary quite a bit

For me it’s quite different, if I were to use the talk test I can quite happily buzz along at 155+ BPM. Feels fine, not hard at all but puts me right in my black hole zone and after maybe 6 months it can end with chronic fatigue, unable to ride hard enough for my hard rides or complete those workouts. That or I get ill. Keeping it ultra low keeps me away from that and Maffetone himself will say that the 180 formula is purposefully on the low side due to the variances in individuals with little to lose for riding under your maf but plenty to lose from straying over it slightly for extended periods.

@Tom_Gurden I’d give my left nut to cruise along at 155 bpm. hahaha…but I hear what you’re saying.

I used to only train by hr, only got my first power meter a few months before joining tr. I don’t really have the time to do many rides over 2 hours so it is interesting to see that 80 to 85% of ftp is what currently takes to get to an average hr of 135ish. Looks like i should be entering some longer events instead of getting whooped in some of the short events.

If you use power on your long steady outdoor rides and are on strava, the calculation in the first link that @mcneese.chad posted is really easy to do. I’ve just looked at the last long steady 4hr ride and worked it out in less than a minute:-)

Have you got a link to this post @tshortt?

At this point I’ve always used the Phil Maffetone formula of 180 - age. This gives me an estimation of AeT at 142 bpm. I’ve also read other sources suggesting AeT should be around 77% of max HR. This also gives me 142 bpm. I want to try the talk test to see if it aligns.

@oggie41 make sure you read the comment above that post from @sryke about VT1 and how to train it. Good points there. FWIW I generally do “rides” below VT1 but will design some interval sessions to target slightly above it. I consider those “sweet spot” sessions.

(Also, sorry for the “Americanization” of my version of the test as @bbarrera pointed out afterwards, you could also talk on the phone. You have to really pay attention)

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If I’m doing a competitive 12 hour time trial 132 to 145 bpm is what I target. Based on nothing other than experience. If I try really hard I can get my hr up to 190 bpm.

So I guess 70% to 75% of max HR is something I can hold for a good long while.

If you want some anecdotal data, take a look at the last leg of the Dirty Kanza 200+ race. Lots of racers will just have their power data up on Strava & you can track them down by looking at DK historic results. If you can hold 170+ watts over that last leg you’re pretty good. 180+ you might be elite. 200+ & you’re probably Ted King.

But that’s still a lot fewer miles than teamkennyg’s ~350 endurance odyssey! Sounds like fun. If you want to see where your base is at, why not just go out and do a hundo? That’s the way I do it…

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A couple of observations on Aerobic Decoupling. Looking at the first link Chad posted, they show images from 3 rides, with the first showing a “better” decoupling that the other two. But note that on the second two rides, the HR starts at a low point and goes up very rapidly at the beginning, whereas in the first image the rider was already at their target HR.
This just means that if you include the start of your ride in the analysis, it will skew the results to give you a higher percentage.

Secondly, it can make a big difference whether you’re indoors or outdoors.
Here’s me doing 3x30 minute intervals on the turbo at 89% FTP: aerobic decoupling over the work intervals was 6%.

And here’s me a week later doing the Time Trial I was training for; which was 1 hour 40 minutes at 94% FTP: aerobic decoupling of 0.5%.

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I was curious how to track that over some of those intervals, as it will take 10-20% of the interval to get to a more stable HR after the initial bump.

Hi all.

Not sure I’m getting this right, but what I use for (“visual”) guidance is a chart that shows aerobic decoupling, HR to Power ratio, and response index for a time period (adjustable). I also chart max 20’ and 60’ power and HR. I’ve added simple trend lines too (though probably simplistic)

So it -now- looks like this for the last 3 months (I’m only showing decoupling and HrPw ratio):

Or like this for the past 28 days:

I take that (the “visual”) and how I feel generally, and decide if I need to ease off somewhat, or maybe work on base, or if I can perhaps push threshold and upwards more. Right now I’d say I’ve probably been somewhat enthusiastic -to put it kindly- about my sessions and events, so am going to take an easy week and probably start a sweet spot mid volume phase next week.

Oh, I use golden cheetah for the charts and more.

I use https://intervals.icu It measures decoupling for all 2+hr sessions.

Currently i’m doing Traditional base so it gives a result on all the 2+ hr sessions

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Marc, how do I access that chart on the site?

You need to be on Strava as its a Strava add on - It will then auto sync all your Strava activities

I’ll second that – all inputs/syncing done…where do I find/how do I initiate the Pwr:HR chart option?

(FWIW, it’s labelling me a ‘noob’…in more ways than one!)