Consistent difficulty in finishing Over/Under


They are hard, hard as hell and that is what they are supposed to be. Last year I really struggled to complete them, but I was more concerned with losing weight than I was raising my FTP so I was not fueling my workouts well. Make sure you are getting enough carbs before the over-unders and try to get between intervals if you can. This approached has made them much more manageable. Ride on.


I just a couple hours ago did my very first one ever. Was a good workout but had no trouble finishing it, so now reading this I am wondering if I have my FTP too low, lol

I did have a half pack of Clif Bloks after the first set and again after the second. Maybe this helps more than I thought?


I’m a suck king at O/U so any advice is just an attempt to get company for my misery! :laughing:

But seriously…I too am on a dumb trainer…I find what works for me is to focus on cadence only. My unders might be 95 and my overs 100. It’s part of what was discussed in the recent podcast – cognitive overload. You’re looking at only one number and it’s (most likely) a smaller number than your power reading = more attractive to your brain.

Your lower cadence version is a matter of muscular endurance. Keep at it and you’ll get stronger. Just a matter of time.

Your high cadence version…what is the under struggle? Your legs? Your breathing?

If you race (I don’t know if you do) I would stick with using cadence vs shifting in order to hit the targets as this is more representative of race events, e.g. a temporary rise in tempo.


You don’t need to do anything. You just started these types of workouts. Don’t worry about finishing all the workouts. You won’t. Just do your best and let your fitness develop. It takes months and years, even if your ftp is correct, to have the muscular endurance to do these. You’ll also have trouble with long tempo workouts like Phoenix for now. In a couple years, you won’t even blink about them.



And as an added bonus, whenever you start to think you suck at O/Us, remind yourself that even really good pro riders find these super hard and don’t always complete their O/U workouts. Unless your genetics are tailored to these kinds of efforts, O/Us are nasty for everyone.


One thing i have not tried is fuelling during training. I subscribe to the mindset that training below 2hrs, i don’t need extra fuel. I might have to change that idea and give it a shot.


I hope the failure of my O/U has been my fuelling prior instead of me being weak. :smiley:


I am doing about 85 for the overs and 95 for the unders. I felt it was easier to push the higher power with a lower cadence and spin with a higher cadence.

I will give your method a shot. I did try that method too but i think i was overthinking how to complete the workout in 1 piece.

My struggle with higher cadence is my breathing. I definitely need to work on deep breathing more.

I have never raced but is training for the Taiwan KOM this year.


thanks for the encouragement. i realised my years of riding has just been doing the wrong thing.

i am taking this opportunity to start all over again. :smiley:


Yep I was kind of the same thought process from some old Joe Friel info. Past two days I’ve eaten 6 egos & 3 eggs for breakfast, plus a few bottles and gel on the bike. Workouts burned 2500 and 2000 kjs so I used all that fuel.

100% will continue to make sure I’m fueling better. Especially since several years ago I really jacked myself up by not fueling enough.


True, it does feel easier to “push the higher power with a lower cadence” but it’s also burning through your limited muscular reserves. It’s almost like you’re doubling your workload by lifting the heavier weight slower. Practice doing it in reverse - 85 cadence for unders and 95 cadence for overs. Try it just on your own, not during a work out…just going from 85 up to 95 and back down. Don’t worry about power targets, just get used to the feel of going back and forth.

As Coach Chad has said in some of the workout notes, your breathing doesn’t have to match your cadence.
Focus on your pedalling during the work interval, practice your breathing during the rest period. Eventually you’ll be able to do it all at once.

Awesome!! I’m jealous! :stuck_out_tongue:

Practicing your breathing and higher cadence will definitely help you with a climb that long.

Good luck!


sorry but what are egos? 2500cal per workout or for 2 days?


this week is the recovery week so i am going to practice my cadence like u said. base phase is really going back to basic for me.

i was not keen to take part but a friend kept asking me to give it a shot. at 82kg and 1.8m, i am not the ideal size for climbing. :smiley:


Going into training with this kind of open mind is important and a huge step in the right direction!

I assume he means these


Yup, Eggos.

Egos are definitely way more than 2500cal! :laughing:


Eggos are Frozen waffles you heat up in a toaster oven. My bad for the typo. And yeah, was showing the workouts I did burned a lot of calories. 2500 for Sunday, 2000 for Saturday.


The box of six a ate before each workout was only 960 calories. Bargain right there :rofl:


Wow I have a freezer full of Eggos that I didn’t even think of eating as fuel. Might have to dig into them. Lately I’ve been eating a large bagel w/PB on it.



Ummm…the first sign of something gone terribly wrong!


Blame my wife for that one. Living in a house full of temptation.