I would definitely do the ramp test at the same time as your other workouts so you have consistent data. And then re: fed vs fasted, for a 20 minute effort you should have plenty of fuel either way but personally I always make sure I’m fed / topped off so I have no excuses 
I’m useless at morning workouts. Got up this morning. Had some porridge (oatmeal if your American) and jumped on the trainer. Supposed to do Palisade - over under 9 min intervals…just died and ended up doing just an hour of zone 2. Rubbish!
3 Likes
I’m with you there. I’m in the fortunate position of not having to do early morning stuff at the moment but when I did I only ever scheduled easier or recovery rides at that time. All the harder ones I’d save for when I did have time later in the day.
With the best will in the world my legs could never manage any serious intensity early in the day. In fairness Palisade isn’t what I’d describe as a recovery ride!
Agreed, I find over under really hard anyway! It’s weird - when I do a 25mile TT I average around my ftp per ramp test so seems fairly accurate…BUT find I need to bump up vo2 workouts a few % to make them as hard as they should be…but find threshold and sweet spot stuff so hard. Even sweetspot intervals for 10 mins or so feels so hard on trainer!
Ah!! So I’m NOT the only one (weirdo!). Ha!
I’m the same — long O/Us are so nasty but VO2s are…manageable? There has to be some physiological disposition causing this. Probably also means we need to train O/U & SS more. 
(edit: I think it was one of the pro Sunweb guys who said O/Us are one of the hardest training session and he rarely finishes a 2x20min workout.)
(edit edit: it was Alex Dowsett of Katusha.)
3 Likes
Yep, that sums me up exactly! Actually prefer vo2 stuff rather than sweetspot/threshold stuff. 2x15mins are hell let alone 2x20!!!
That’s why have sustained power build planned to try and improve!
Another early riser, alarm goes off at 415. Make espresso, drink that with a cliff bar while dogs are eating and doing their business, do my business, get dressed, get bike ready, start workout. Goal is to be finished as close to 6 as possible.
I have found drinking my ideal drink mix I’d use on normal rides greatly improved the quality of my workouts. And I’ll use two bottles for a 90 minute plus ride since i need to start my weekend ride early enough to take my daughter to ballet at 9 every other Saturday.
I usually try to be in bed by 930 so pretty short might compared to others but when i wear my watch to sleep it says i get about 50 to 60 % of my sleep time as deep sleep. Makes my wife jealous since she needs 8 to 9 hours and gets less deep sleep than i do.
3 Likes
That where I’m the opposite of you and @Captain_Doughnutman. A set of over unders, 5x10 at threshold or 5x20 tempo/sweet spot and I’ll grumble and get on with it.
Proper VO2 Max stuff has me quaking at the knees 
3 Likes
The wonder of training! If all the same then training would be too simple and boring!
1 Like
Since doing early workouts, I find my heart rate is 10-15 bpm higher for the same effort compared to riding in the evening - Will this limit performance/gains?
For how long have you trained early in the morning now?
I found it so, that it took a while (about two weeks) for me to adopt to the early morning sessions. I think it might be because of that my body needed to get used to waking up and training earlier.
Only done my first full week last week, so you noticed the same but your HR came back down after consistently doing it?
Yep, that’s what happened to me. But in general, any change to the training habits you are used to, can have similar kind of effects in the short term.
I know this won’t solve your problem, but it will at least assure you its a real issue not just being lazy. I’d guess from your profile picture & name you’re a UK rider ( was that Winnats Pass on a Tour of the Peaks? ). Dig out a recent Horizon on BBC iPlayer about circadian rhythm and the presenter a Dr or Prof states we perform physical tasks better in the afternoon - obviously more nuanced than that.
As I say not a solution but now you wont beat yourself up too badly.
My solution is all high intensity have to go in the evening. All others inc Strength conditioning in the morning.
Good luck
I find the same with swim in the morning, I can only swim early during the school holidays and that is always my best sessions. My stroke seems that bit better.
Yes it is Winnatts from Tour Of the Peaks - that ride was tough!
I caught that documentary where the guy lived in the bunker! It did say morning was not the time for working out, I just didn’t expect it to have such an effect on HR, if anything I presumed it would be the opposite, like when you are tired and can’t get HR to the same level
Yup that was the one. Poor bloke!
I hadn’t caught your post about the impact it has on your HR. Is it supressed so you struggle to elevate it or does your HR exceeds typical rate for the same wattage?
The TotP was tough ride, I rode to Winnats keeping some back, knowing Holme Moss was around the corner and I’m very glad I did. I really enjoyed the course it was well thought out and I’ve ridden & lived in and around the area in my youth and they picked a good circuit - tough! Probably the weather helped but it was up there with my favourite rides of last year.
If you like tough search for Ronde van Calderdale - I did the TotP & the C2C in a day and they were both a walk in the park vs RvC!
Found the HR post. I’d guess an elevated HR would be better as I struggle to hit the HR and I presume that your body responds to inputs and the physiological situation that creates not the outputs - don’t tell anyone but that’s my issue with solely PM based training. A bad day struggling to hold threshold is just threshold as far as PM training is concerned. When you’re flying and its easy that can’t be as much TSS surely as a tough day in the saddle on the trainer both holding threshold for 3*10m for example. Or have I just committed heresy!!! 
I will look up that sportive, I didn’t find Winnatts as bad as I was expecting, although I paid the price later in the ride and ran out of legs long before I got back to Bakewell! Got stuck behind some cars too on the descent from Winant’s which was a major disappointment! I live in Lincolnshire so the long fast descents are very novel to me!
The programme was interesting, although it would be great if someone did something similar on exercise performance and your circadian rhythm!
2 Likes
Do you all fully commit to training in the morning only? I occasionally train in the morning if family commitments require it but its based on a ramp test that I have done mid afternoon when I know my power is best. Do you test in the morning also?