Experiment Fasted Training

fasted-training

#32

I am a bit lost as well here.

In fact I don’t understand a point of fasting to start with.
We are a product of millions of years of evolution, and nowhere in our history does it say that depleting our bodies from essential nutrients, makes us better at anything at all.


#33

Yes I did end up at the same weight. Life through me some curve balls and I did not handle them well. I learned from it and hopefully wont make the same mistakes again. Also I don’t have to worry about the holidays.

Also not eating is not trouble. Its actually easier. My body certainly handles it better and so does my mind.

The point is that it worked well and I felt great. It was very effective at losing the weight. I had no headaches or anything else and in fact my body felt great.

As for my power it certainly feels higher. But I just found out my tacx vortex kind of guesses at the power. Following the instructions in the TR app for the first time the trainer got to 345 watts in the small front ring and middle rear. With that gearing the wheel did not have enough momentum to keep up. Something about a problem with the power floor. The Tacx needs a much higher speed to keep that wattage. Also the tire is quite polished so Ive got a tire on order and I will use the gearing that I have always used for the next ftp test. But the workouts I did at the end of ssb 2 certainly seemed easier at the end.

As for weight goal before I can touch the Roubaix… Its 30 lbs.


#34

Blockquote SomeCallMeTim

3h

I am at Lissa’s well here.

In fact I don’t understand a point of fasting to start with.
We are a product of millions of years of evolution, and nowhere in our history does it say that depleting our bodies from essential nutrients, makes us better at anything at all.

Blockquote

Actually Tim throughout our history and our evolution we have always had feast or famine. Thats why our bodies have adapted to store fat. But then Ill stop as there are thousands of books on evolution and everything else. As well over 2 Billion people on the planet fast as part of their lifestyle.

Its also well proven that fasting does not deplete us. That’s why we store fat. For the next famine. Also our body is so advanced that when we are facing famine our body converts fat to Ketones for our brain to use as it cannot use stored fat. Ketones are a much better source of fuel for our brain than anything else.

The longest recorded modern fast is around 320 days. This fast took place in a hospital under medical supervision. The patient had water and a daily multivitamin and thats it. He went from somewhere around 520 lbs to 176 lbs and stabilized at 195 lbs. He suffered no negative consequences from this fast.

Maybe you could explain the real reason our bodies store fat instead of maybe just excreting it?

I would suggest you read some material and get updated. For start read Dr. Jason Fungs books “The Obesity code” and “The Complete guide to Fasting”! You might be surprised that our knowledge on these topics have improved quite a bit since the 1920’s. :scream:

I’m going to apologize for the above rant. Its not great to come out and deal with my failure out in the open. The bottom line is the fast worked. I felt great. And then I screwed up and tossed out all the work. At least I’m here man enough to be open and honest about it and not bullshitting everyone.

For years Ive tried calorie reduction and everything else. Its never worked for me. This has worked far better than anything else. And its not the first time. Ive done three 6.5day fasts that were successful. This was the first time Ive gone over 7 days and this was 13. Big problem was I did not prep coming off the fast properly and I went right into the holiday season with 3 different Christmas dinners with family. Shit happens.

Oh and I got to hungry tonight so I had 2 hamburger patties plain. About 500 Calories. I just finished riding recess 1 hour 524 Calories. Ill call it a win.

I aim to do better tomorrow!


#35

My post wasn’t to disrespect your experiment. Quite the opposite in fact. My apologies if it did come out that way (I am known to be quite blunt in delivery).

I agree with all of the points that you made. We are naturally fat adapted. As far as famine concerned, keep in mind that during famine people did tend to die. Those who would survive were not athletes, doing strenuous exercises on daily basis. Same goes to those, who were under medical supervision.

Again, I am not trying to discourage you from the experiment. It is simply worth keeping in mind what it is that we are trying to do here. :slight_smile:

Tim.


#36

@SomeCallMeTim and all
:slight_smile:

But…there is a huge difference between people dying in famine and intermittent fasting.

In relation to what we are doing here - first hand reports on eating regimes, nutrition and the training etc, even if they are n=1 are what makes these forums such a great place.

:slight_smile:

Be it a success or failure, it is extremely brave for anyone to share there own experiments to the benefit of others in the forums. The collective information should be valued and appreciated; they may not be water tight scientific studies, but thanks has to go out for the sheer dedication, time and effort that has gone into collecting, collating and sharing. We may all not have ‘exactly’ the same goals - but every extra dab of informative paint on the training canvas, creates a more detailed picture for all.

I’m not here to preach about a new personal discovery (intermittent fasting) there are enough evangelists and current studies on the subject to show how it works, the physiology involved, the varying regimes etc. I’m only in this thread to share the experience and discuss, hopefully for the benefit of others.

Having personally struggled with weight control/work life balance etc over the last 30 years, it is great (for the first time) to find something that is in essence so simple to do and an alternative to calorie or food group restriction - that might also just fit a little better into the structured training on TR while (possibly) be less detrimental to the training effect.

I look forward to further reports from others on the subject and wish you well with your health and training.


#37

Doesn’t research also show that those who fast gain more weight after they stop fasting? I’m sure I’ve read this somewhere. The body responds to a fasted state by ensuring it has more fat for the next time it encounters “famine”. If you want to keep the pounds off then I still think a well balanced diet is the best method.


#38

No and Yes :slight_smile:

The body simply replenishes it energy stores
i.e. glycogen stores and then fat.
And it does the reverse when utilising it.

It doesn’t turn on a special switch after fasting to say - I’m going to change the way I do this from now on.

I’ve also read ‘somewhere’ the same text - but I can only see this in context of metabolic rate. i.e. Once the body has been starved excessively (beyond most intermittent fasting regimes) the metabolic rate slows and using up stores next time becomes a slower process.

Indeed, if switching on fat storage happened every time someone fasted they would see more being stored until the loss stopped altogether - which just doesn’t seem to be the case.

Fat loss with IF (or any restriction or diet) only appears to slow as body fat percentage falls to low levels. Quite understandable if there is much less of a particular fuel to metabolise.

And Yes, to the well balanced diet - and that a well balanced diet should include a well timed consumption. IF may provide a way to make that well balanced diet even more effective.

It does seem to change the way the body uses fuel and repairs itself and (n=1) I can see and feel the fat disappearing from under my skin as the weeks progress in a way I haven’t before, without having to weigh and count every last calorie.

All in all - each to their own.


#39

i think you better do some research…
e.g. https://casereports.bmj.com/content/2018/bcr-2017-221854

and you can find much more


#40

I find intermittent fasting interesting and have been observing it for 15+ years back when I was crushing WODs and eating Paleo in my CrossFit days.:roll_eyes: My friends experimented with fasting and all seemed to enjoy it while in the process, but none of them stuck with it and it appeared to be a bit of a temporary fad. Or maybe it was a means to an end and they reverted back to traditional eating habits after reaching their goals. :man_shrugging:

I’ve never tried intermittent fasting and have always been of the opinion that I don’t want to survive, I want to thrive. To thrive as a competitive athlete I need to fuel my body timely, fully and without restrictions. I will likely never be without food in life or on the bike. I also have no weight issues or struggle eating in competition.

So, fasting doesn’t make sense for me (even though I’m aware off all the science), but we are not all created equal. I enjoy and wish the best of luck to those who experiment what works best for them.


#41

Carried on with WK1 SSB2 but tried another Ramp test today (Non fast day and the News Years alcohol has had plenty of chance to clear the system)

FTP up from 240 to 253


#42

lebowskii98

FatBoySlim

11h

Doesn’t research also show that those who fast gain more weight after they stop fasting? I’m sure I’ve read this somewhere. The body responds to a fasted state by ensuring it has more fat for the next time it encounters “famine”. If you want to keep the pounds off then I still think a well balanced diet is the best method.

Quite the opposite actually. What you have described is the direct result of calorie reduced diets. Thats why society is at where it is today. The eat less move more movement has not worked for the last 50 years and that is why we have such a high obesity problem. Look at the contestants from the biggest loser. Highly calorie restricted and most if not all have gained all the weight back as well as permanently damaged there metabolism.

IF or fasting in general supposedly does not reduce the metabolism by much at all until you get under 4% body fat.
Here is an interesting article.

How do you do a proper reply with quote here?


#43

Sure, it worked well until it didn’t. Then you gained all the weight back. Is this type of lifestyle actually sustainable long term?


#44

Well had a couple burger patties last night about 500 Calories. Big mistake. That triggered a urge to eat. Had a bunch of pickles and cheese last night. Not the end of the world but not pleased with it. Weight stayed the same today. Going to stick to miso soup for the next 2 days so will be around 90-120 calories a day and then will switch to bone broth once a day for vitamins and minerals and 1 or 2 electrolyte tabs a day.

Trying hard not to ride today as its an off day. Went to the pool for lane swim today for the first time in 25 years. Did 750 meters. A little tired and will be sore tomorrow but was fun. Ill probably get board later and do recess ride again…

Anyone use the Elevate plug in for strava? I was checking it today and my fatigue at its highest was 75.8 percent. Today its at 48.7%… How accurate is that?


#45

bherbers

3m

The point is that it worked well and I felt great. It was very effective at losing the weight.

Sure, it worked well until it didn’t. Then you gained all the weight back. Is this type of lifestyle actually sustainable long term?

Yes it worked well until I chose not to do the right thing for myself and was weak and screwed up. (Lets pound that one home thank you!!!) Fasting for life is not a long term solution, I would like to live! At one point I was over 100 pounds overweight. Now I am 38-43 lbs overweight and my ftp went up from around 223 to 292 but I think its actually over 300 now.

Fasting is a way to get to my goal weight with much less cost to myself than the traditional calorie reduced diet. Once there I will switch to intermittent fasting and eat 2-3 meals one day and 1-2 the next. Of course it will require experimentation to figure out what I actually need at that point for homeostasis.


#46

If I may suggest something. What you are doing is almost akin to Water Fasting which I have done in the past. When you fast for an extended period of time, your blood volume and Red blood cells decrease quite dramatically. You lose a lot of fitness. Also, this rapid weightloss is not sustainable. You will gain a chunk of it back. My suggestion is to go with slower approach with a small calorie deficit. This is the approach I am currently taking.

IMHO, Fasting and Keto do not go with Endurance sports as our body evolved to metabolize Glucose for fuel via the ATP and Citric Acid (Krebs) cycle.
YMMV.


#47

I appreciate your input. Ive used this method to lose over 50 lbs and it has stayed off. Also I am 50 years old in just under 2 months. I am much more concerned about my health than I am about being an endurance athlete. My ftp has increased on this journey over 70 points and I am riding at a level that I have not seen since my early 20’s, mainly because I have not really ridden much since my 20’s until the last 2 years. This past year I rode 12000 km including a 1600 km 6 day trip where I rode 311 km the first day and did most of the trip in a fasted state. In fact the first day I took in Under 100 Calories and burnt over 12000 according to Strava.

I would suggest you read “The Obesity Code” and “the Complete Guide to Fasting” by Dr. Jason Fung. It may change your idea on some of the more common material. I know Coach Chad thinks a lot of his work.


#48

Been 16/8 fasting for a couple of months now and I have done my TR saturday 2 hour rides at about 14 hour fasted and to my surprise had no problems completing. I find I have to count my calories daily because I can eat a lot of food in a 8 hour window. 15 or so years ago I went from 285 to 185 pounds by counting calories and am at 175 today. Counting calories is my go to when I really want to lose weight but it’s kind of a hobby of mine to try different things. Just my thoughts on the matter.


#49

I combine intermitted fasting and a modified SSBHV. At least 3 sessions per week are in fasted state, early in the morning. Yesterday I did a 4x20 min SST in the afternoon a few hours after lunch and it was really easy!

It seems that doing the training in fasted state helps progression, for me at least.


#50

So I’ve done some reading over the last 24 hours along with looking back at my last fast. I’ve also been looking at the food labels of what I’ve been consuming.
I realized that im really sabotaging this fast and not really fasting. I’ve been doing more of a calorie reduced keto.
So I’m cutting out miso, mct oil, coconut oil, bone broth, cream for tea and fish oil pills.

The miso is different than what I used before and really could be triggering an insulin reaction leading to cravings.

So I’m limiting myself to lemon/lime juice with water or apple cider vinegar with water, green and black tea, electrolytes a couple of vitamins.

On another note rode Reinstein today.
1.5 hours 1143 calories burnt. Electrolyte tablet 9 calories. Feel quite good and ride went well. Scale is dead and needs batteries so no weight today.

Also did Wim Hof Day one work.


#51

I was listening to a podcast, Ben Greenfield I think, and the person he was interviewing indicated that one of the bodies first strategies to deal with short IF style fasts is to catabolize cells that are at the end of their lifespan or that are otherwise not performing well. This is where they think the anti aging and anti cancer effects come from. Conversely, when the carbs some regularly, the body tries to sustain these old and marginally productive cells. Basically the IF promotes a regular housekeeping effect. Seemend like it wasn’t exactly settled science, but it seems like a reasonable hypothesis.