Experiment Fasted Training

fasted-training

#61

I am curious where the 18 kcal come from


#62

SIS Go Hydro Electrolyte tablets. I had 2 today. er 4.3g tablet is 9 Kcal I thought it was just Calorie. Seems they are the same. I add one to a large glass of water and drink it. I also add himilayan salt to water and drink it.

sis go
9 cal
.8g carbohydrate
.2 g fiber
.3g salt
102 mg calcium
8.1 mg magnesium
65 mg potassium


#63

The process of removing marginal cells is called AUTOPHAGY. There is a ton of work being done in this area to determine the optimal fasting cycles to maximize this effect.


#64

I think the key to fasting of any type is to do it in cycles that make sense. We are in a unique period in human existence where food availability is unprecedented. Not only the volume but the types of calorie dense, hyperpalateable foods is incredible. Also, the amount of sugar consumed has gone from about 5lbs per person in the early 1900s to over 50lbs per person today. I want to increase my performance, but increasing my health is more important. Even if I was at my ideal weight, I would still fast from time to time. Your body is designed for this and needs it. More studies will continue to promote this. As has been mentioned already, Dr. Jason Fung, Dr. Peter Attia, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, Dr Panda, and Dr. Longo have much work in this area.

I have to also point out that if you have never been more than 20lbs overweight, it is hard to understand how hard it is to get back to normal. There are many factors involved in this. So let’s say you are 15 lbs over weight. You do a calorie restricted diet for a couple months and you are back to normal. If you are 100lbs overweight, you might be restricting calories for a very long time. Long term calorie restriction lowers your metabolism more than fasting. Diet restriction is hard. Fast takes the choice out of it. It is easier for the mind to make a binary decision than to make a less concrete one. What I mean is that if your choice is to eat or not eat, it is easier than to try and decide how much cake you will have, if it is ok to have a beer, etc. For those who have not ever struggled to lose weight, I know it is hard to understand this. Many doctors will tell people move more, eat less. It works, but it is very hard to sustain for a long period of time.

Lots of things work for different people. Do your own research and make your own decisions about what is right for you. Fasting in cycles makes sense for me.


#65

Jan 8
Weight 203.2 Gained 1.2 lbs
Erickson 1 hour burned 746 calories Heart rate about 6 beats higher than normal on heavier parts. Workout a little harder than normal but forgot to put fan on and didn’t want to stop to turn it on. Not worried about it though.
Calories today will be 18
Fatigue 52.7
Ketonix meter 69. Full Ketosis is at 60 points so Im doing good.
“autophagy” has started to kick in. SLOWLY

Very tired. Only a few hours sleep. Did cold therapy today with Wim Hof Day 3.
Only slept 2 hours. I’m sure Cortisol levels are very high with 2 days and 4.5 hours sleep total. Also drank a boat load of water with salt yesterday. Not surprised with gain but not happy with it either. A lot of water weight and autophagy not fully kicked in. Trusting the process.

23.2 lbs until the Roubaix comes off the wall! :frowning:

Have to remember the first 62 did not come off over night. :wink:


#66

Do you have to put the Roubaix back on the wall when you stop fasting again and the weight goes up?


#67

Oh - do we need that?


#68

Lol. Awesome. Yes I should do that. Thank you for the excellent suggestion.

I know that I will continue to fail on this trial. Im ok with that as long as I don’t give up.

When I stop fasting I will gain around 7 pounds immediately. The body will immediately retain water for the use of the digestive system. Probably less if I stay away from carbs.

I started this experiment at 214 and went down to 191 and then back to 208. Not great but not terrible with a water weight gain of 7 lbs. 10 lbs over xmas… not proud of it but oh well. That’s still a loss of 6 lbs in 2 months. Not as good as it could be but I’ll take it as a win.

Besides I started using intermittent fasting at 265 lbs. So I went up to 208 during xmas. Lol who cares, at that point I was still 57 pounds down from the start.

Autophagy has kicked in full speed. I’ve lost 3.1 pounds since this morning. Body is cleaning itself out high speed.


#69

Finding reading your story very interesting and do wish you the best with this journey. I will voice what some others have said, you are very brave to expose yourself openly this way, but by doing so we are all learning from your experience.

I’m reassured you have spent a long time researching this path you are currently undertaking and wish you success at the end regardless of any setbacks you may have during it.

Thank you.


#70

I listen to a lot of podcasts and do a bit of reading on this subject. Dr. Peter Attia in particular is interested in measuring autophagy. He did a week of keto, followed by 7 days of water only fasting, finishing up with a week of keto. He posts all his bloodwork and other numbers of interest. He is no longer “training” for anything although he used to do very crazy endurance events, like 20 hour swims! He still has not found a protocol which measures autophagy directly. Also of interest, I saw a news story today about a drug that kicks off autophagy and tells the body to kill senescent (half dead, barely functioning) cells. It seems half the interest in fasting is in the area of weight loss/weight management and the other half is in human longevity.

I’m down to 195 from about 270 since I started this 3 years ago. I have not stayed on my plan perfectly, but obviously have made progress. I think people who have more than a few lbs to lose are in a different category of how things work in their bodies. Most likely, various fasting protocols seem to help long term. I guess we will see. Keep at it FatBoySlim!


#71

If you are interested in Fasting I highly recommend the book of Dr. Valter Longo. He describes a mimicking diet with all the advantages of fasting but without just drinking water.

Here is a long Interview with a lot of shownotes from the Rich Roll Website.

And no, you dont have to buy anything. Its just possible if you dont want to build your own meal plan. I did it and all my kg of weight loss didnt jojo back.


#72

Thx for the support and all the info guys. Im going to try and set this up as a format somehow to keep it the same.

Jan 9
Weight 198.5 Lost 4.7 pounds yesterday. Thx autophagy lol. Weighed before workout.
Carter 45 min. burned 521 calories
Calories today will be 27
Fatigue 50.2
Ketonix meter 68.

Slept better. About 5 hours. Will have a nap today. Autophagy rush seems over although I have not drank enough today. Overall feeling great today.

19.5 lbs until the Roubaix comes off the wall! :grinning:

On another note I set my goal weight to 145 pounds on my scale app at some point. Im going to change that to 165 and see how I am “WHEN” I get there. 165 will be 10 pounds lighter than when I was 14 Playing top level hockey.

I am a little frustrated by the drop in riding. Last program I was riding 2 times on most days. 7 days a week. This time I’m only doing programmed rides and go lane swimming on off days. My body feels better but it is boring.

Again thx for the support and good job on your own adventures!


#73

Jan 10
Weight 196.7 Lost 1.8 pounds.
Carson hour burned 770 calories
Calories today will be 36
Fatigue 53.2
Ketonix meter 78. Full blown ketosis

Slept better. About 6 hours. Feeling a little dehydrated maybe. Forgot about salt in the water. Followed the workout text in Carson. Normally I just spin between 95-100. Did a lot of 85 cadence today. Legs feel a lot heavier and tired.

17.7 lbs until the Roubaix comes off the wall!


#74

Jan 11
Weight 195.5 Lost 1.2 pounds.
Went lane swimming last night and will do same today. Trying not to ride. Today is an off day.
Calories today will be 18
Fatigue 45.2
Ketonix meter 71. Full blown ketosis

Slept better. About 6 hours. Feeling a little tired and weak today. Was stupid and jest felt like pop last night. Drank a 2 liter of diet dr pepper. I never touch diet pop. I think part of it is the feeling that I’m being deprived of something (food) and I deserve to have something (poisened diet pop(aspartame)) lol. its ok as long as it doesnt hapen very often.

16.5 lbs until the Roubaix comes off the wall!


#75

Jan 12
Weight 195.4 Lost .1 pounds.
Tunemah 1.5 hours Calories burned 1091
Did not go swimming yesterday and was a total rest day other than grocery shopping.
Calories Yesterday 527. today will be 18
Fatigue 52.1
Ketonix meter 72. Full blown ketosis, Quite shocked that the soup did not change that.

Napped and slept a lot. Around 11 hours total. My spouse made an awesome black bean soup yesterday. I CHOSE to have a bowl of it. I figure it was around 500 calories, It was great and worth it. Even better I CHOSE to have the soup and nothing else. Usually when I am doing something like this I would look at the soup as a failure or weakness and then it would become a bit of a runaway. I had soup and I stopped at soup.

Now the consequences of the soup lol.
All metabolic processes are firing full steam ahead. I had to get off the bike multiple times to run to the washroom. Actually worked out well as I did not have the energy to do the ride all at once. I think my body is trying to use the soup I had instead of my fat. Problem is I did not eat anywhere near enough to provide that level of energy (this is just a guess). I also had to reduce the effort of the ride to get it done. The effort seemed very hard today. I think I have learned that eating this way is not a good Idea for training. It would have been better to not have anything. We will see if that lesson holds or not.

Also Ive been getting a fair bit of tightness in the hips. I’m starting a hip strengthening program tonight. Not a lot of energy to do it.

16.4 lbs until the Roubaix comes off the wall! lol


#76

Jan 13. Had about 20 people over at our house for a get together. Ate a lot. To much good food, friends and drink. Start again on the 14th. lol.


#77

Jan 14
Weight no idea
Leavitt +2 1.5 hours burned 1192calories
Calories today will be about 750. Using as a bridge day to get back to fasting.

Feeling like utter crap. Seems like immune system is kicking in. Feeling very arthritic today and I only feel that way after a lot of bad food choices. Hips are killing me on the ride. Almost 50 minutes before they kind of loosened up. So thankful Chad talked about week hips 2 weeks ago. I did some exercises and although my legs are quite large, my hips and glutes are either non-existant or not activating. I have trouble doing 3x15 of side leg lifts when on the floor on my side. Now it makes sense why I always get shin splints. Trying to design an easy program to get those muscles back in ship. Ill way myself tomorrow and see where I am at. The fast also restarts tonight.

Did some research on why I gain 7 lbs immediately when I stop fasting. It turns out it may be a potassium magnesium imbalance. Tried a supplement tonight. We will see how that goes.


#78

Its important to have those days.


#79

Hey @FatBoySlim
Keep it up bud - maybe don’t be so hard on your body & mind. It’s really a personal choice - but I’ve found anything beyond 72hrs really skews the mental focus. Not the actual fasting, but the combination of fasting and exercise. It becomes more like a punishment/reward thing - with too much fasted training weighing heavily toward the punishment end.

Agree with @Turtle_Express.
I’m no expert and this is continuing to be n=1 feedback.

FYI
My IF ranges from 24-72hrs. Mostly 3 days 36hrs (water & black coffee only). Normal eating on other days - no calorie counting, but mindful of getting some good value nutrients. Putting the high intensity TR stuff at the end of the eating days and that’s about it (only one aborted workout in the last 8 weeks and yet again that was down to being correctly fuelled). Weight is going down - FTP is going up.

I don’t weigh myself every day - it becomes obsessive and the unnecessary stress it introduces is not helpful. I initially did this and the body just yo-yo’s with its natural water uptake and other bodily functions. Once a week, same scales, same time seems simpler. If you don’t drop any weight - then wait until the following week and then make changes if nothing happens for 2 weeks.

The interesting thing I’ve found is that the odd one day a week out with friends with no restriction on eating hasn’t destroyed my weight loss journey. In fact a couple of those a month seem to keep the system up and running better than any month long calorie restriction diet I’ve ever been on (more n=1, it could be the IF it’s a first for me). Just don’t plan on having them every week and keep them to whatever min number keeps you on track.

Like you I really feel like crap the following day - but a day of IF later I have a fresh and clear head and get back on track.

Best wishes @FatBoySlim with your efforts and thanks for the honest and open feedback you have posted.