That’s an odd complaint. They can make and sell as many new versions as they want. It’s your choice to buy or not.
It would be like complaining that Trek, Specialized and the others sell new bike models every year. You’re not obligated to upgrade, just for the sake of upgrading.
Ride what you already own and be happy with it. It was good enough for you to get in the first place. The existence of a new model doesn’t make your prior one work any different than when you bought it.
Just to add to the power match talk. I do believe a single sided PM makes power match a even harder task. That’s why I have settled using Erg mode with power match disabled. I monitor my power meter on my Garmin and make small adjustments as needed. It’s made my workouts so much better this way.
Why?
Assuming you are applying steady power (with minimal cadence/power changes) it will work like any other power meter.
There may be an issue if you are varying cadence/power as it might update a bit slower than dual sided, but I would need to see practical test results validating that issues.
I had a similar experience moving from a KK Rock N Roll to a Wahoo Kickr (the expensive one). It felt horrible to pedal and the erg mode took ages to adjust. I sent it back and went back to the KK. It put me off smart trainers for a long time but a year or so later I pulled the trigger on the Neo and haven’t looked back, it’s an amazing bit of kit.
I believe they have since increased the inertial load in the Wahoo. However, IMO, the Wahoo’s method of producing inertial load compared to the Neo; it’s like giving the horse steroids when your competitor has invented the car.
I requested TR look at my files because power match was so jumpy and they had me eliminate interference by turning everything off and it didn’t change anything. They mentioned single sided PMs add to the problem. I have no idea why. It’s all over my head.
That’s not been my experience on the Kickr2017. I have a Kinetic Road Machine and like it’s road feel as well. I haven’t done a back-to-back comparison, but they are both reasonable for use in my experience. I wonder if you got a bum Kickr, which is common with the 2018 models.
I have a back order in for a Neo 2, so I can do a variety of testing on it. I am curious to see how the virtual flywheel feels in comparison to my Kickr (and other smart trainers H2, PowerBeam Pro, Magnus).
I actually had my Kickr the tail end of 2015 so definitely not a 2018 version. I don’t know when they updated/changed the product though.
I’d wager that a single sided PM is more prone to fluctuating power than one that does total power because it would amplify the changes in a single leg as opposed to averaging them out
I’ve used TR PowerMatch on wheel-off Kickr 2017 with both single-sided Stages (gen2) and dual-sided Stages LR. Both worked fine for me.
I should clarify that I’m not saying power match doesn’t work, I’m saying I don’t like the large power swings up or down. With my setup power match off is super smooth in comparison so I much prefer it. Also TR tech didn’t say a single sided meter was a problem he just said it could add to the problem. I no longer have the email and I’m terrible at quoting people so I wouldn’t read into it to much. I’m just saying it was mentioned in my situation.
I’m using a Kickr 2017 (wheel off, direct drive) and TR’s PowerMatch with Stages crank arm power meter. I’ve looked at representative outdoor rides, where I’m putting down steady/smooth power. Comparing outside power to trainer power (w/PowerMatch), what struck me is that my trainer setup is a little smoother than steady/smooth power outside. For me, it feels more natural and I don’t mind the power swings on the trainer.
I don’t even use my Stages with my kickr anymore. Nothing seemed smooth or synced well. Power from the kickr is pretty close to what my stages records. If for whatever reason the TR workout feels easy,I bump up the intensity.
Good point for sure! This makes me realize that training indoors we probably over focus on the numbers because it’s so darn easy to.
Exactly!
erg mode is definitely totally different than riding on the road. For me, not having to shift makes it worth it though. The worst part is that people hate steady state error, so they have more integral gain than they should. That’s the effect when you get behind on power at the end of an interval and the resistance stays high even though the rest period power is much lower.
Found a 1st Gen Kicker on eBay for $650 and I will say all of your complaints in this post would not have been experienced with the Kickr. Absolutely love my Kickr. It’s we’ll worth the money. I’ve had it for 2 years and never had an issue with it nor a complaint in it’s use or functionality.
What’s your FTP? I’ve had a Snap for years and its been fine. The Snap is basically useless under 150W though, @20mph it takes about 150W to overcome the roller resistance and the magnetic brake is just off. A very fast rolling tire will help out a lot.
I’ve never had a single issue of any type with my gen1 snap.
What speeds are you guys with issues riding at? 18-24mph seems to be the sweet spot. It will death spiral under 15mph, but there is no reason to have the wheel spinning that slow.
Nothing like a solid fluid trainer!
I switched from a KK to an elite turbo muin 2 (also a fluid trainer, but wheel off) which I use with assioma pedals.
It’s an awesome little unit and can’t see myself switching. At the price I got it at (crazy clear-out) I actually bought two.
I run a KK w/ L-side Stages and I can testify to this. Even a shift in shoe position will cause power variation. Quadrant drills really messes with the watt readings. A big reason I still focus on cadence instead of power for certain workouts. I’m not even close to needing to hunt for marginal gains to make gains so if I’m off a few watts here & there it’s no biggie.
The price was AU$499 delivered from Chain Reaction. Not sure where you are, but they deliver these to Australia for free, whereas Wiggle charge an extra $90 for shipping (not sure how this works, CRC and Wiggle are actually owned by the same parent company and their inventory is shared).
I sold my old KK for $250 prior to the purchase, and I also reclaimed the DT 240 hub on my trainer wheel for a build so I really didn’t tip in too much extra out of pocket. I justified the full cost of the spare (still boxed) because I’ll easily be able to sell it if it doesn’t eventually get used.
It’s a great little unit. No louder than a dishwasher or running faucet (far quieter than the KK), with good progressive resistance, a stable base for sprints while still having a slight side-to-side sway built in too. Plus a much smaller footprint and no need to endlessly twist the dial… just get one 