Waving my magic wand… I made cheating disappear 
.
Now… what is different in the world of Zwift?
What does it really change?
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Cheating never botherd me because I do not race. I can imagine that if you do then it would be an issue. However I understand the majority of users do not race and do solo rides, group rides or workouts - as I did.
Saucy!
Race events are verified by Zwift power…who link to your strava account for verification of your performance. I’m not chasing a podium so really have no issue with anyone who cheats at the top end, it they really do cheat…
Not sure its rampant, think its completely over blown this cheating thing. As previous poster put, he put out 400w for 4 minutes and people assumed he was cheating. I do my intervals on Zwift, pushing 400+W for minutes and minutes at a time… to someone cruising along at 150w, they might think he’s cheating. There is always someone faster than you and something the lama said stuck with me… you have to put a lot of hard work into cycling just to be sh*t
As in lots of races there are races within races and this is what I enjoy on Zwift, pushing each other to the line, making that break off the back as the blob moves away… got that one down to an art form!
Final thing about Orginal post… for me 3.5w/kg on Zwift feels like 3.5w/kg on Trainer road, don’t understand that one as your power is being measured by your hardware… Zwift or TR will tell it what resistance to set for power required. Can’t see how one can be easier than the other…strange one
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I think Zwift speed over ground is a bit unrealistic, on a higher side, but it doesn’t make it any easier. I race my own numbers, but being in a group, race or workout, helps to keep pushing.
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Beautifully put!!!
Although there’s a massive number of people using Zwift, there’s a real community around the racing that isn’t really that big. Anyone standing out for the wrong reasons are quickly noticed.
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I might have to try racing just to see how the tactics work vs real world. I registered with Zwift power but don’t have an HRM so folks can still call me a cheater.
I’m guessing Zwift users are more representative of recreational cyclists in general than TR so you’re point about someone pushing 150w is spot on. And even more so if I’m cruising on an aerobic ride at 3-3.2 w/kg when that maybe well over threshold for them. 5.5w/kg+ for any amount of time more than a sprint has the uninitiated sounding the doping alarms…
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If you don’t have an HRM, you might get DQ’d from some results on Zwiftpower depending on the category and organisers rules. There’s lots of similarities on Zwift in terms of tactics. A couple of tips if you’ve not raced before:
The starts are alway hard. Spin up to at least 300W 5second before the start and be prepared to go harder if need be until it settles down.
Staying in the draft is key. If you lose the wheel on Zwift, it’s as hard, if not harder than in real life to get back on.
I’m not sure about the Zwift user being more recreational though. Have you seen the number of pros that use it? Cav was racing a few weeks ago (and got his ass kicked!!). The beauty of it was you could see his power numbers. He let a move go in a silly place and couldn’t get back on!!
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Also to add, I think Zwift is too much into w/kg and their calculations are a bit too basic. Once people hit the hill, ones with the same w/kg output stay together, but we know it is not that simple. 2 persons doing 150W and 350W respectively uphill, but their w/kg being same, depending on the incline would not result in the same speed, in my mind. They would only go at same speed if they were going vertical, no?
At least in that case I know that I’m out there on a level playing field. I’m sorry, but personally, if you put me and a bunch of other people on bikes and put a finish line out there, I’m going to really care about who goes over it first. That’s just who I am.
It’s also why I like to train and prepare for the races I really care about. Every time I get on the bike I’m trying to achieve some sort of specific goal. I could see how doing races on Zwift could be a useful training tool, but again, the cheating will just piss me off more than motivate me.
Just getting on Zwift to tootle around and see my avatar ride by a volcano does absolutely nothing for me. I realize this isn’t the case for everyone.
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Thanks for the tips. I’ll have to give it a go soon. Since pushing my A race off I’m coming in too hot so could be fun to try before winding back down. Any race recommendations?
By recreational I just meant more users in general so more folks rolling around at 150w and socializing. Not really what I’m there to do.
I had heard that a lot of pros are on it. It’s certainly a good option to hammer out the days prescribed workout indoors.
That was essentially my point.
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A person can focus on the Outcome Goal - I finished in # of ## riders in the B-Group - and consider that a success or a failure.
- Just like in real life, there are many things in Zwift that are out of our control. The honesty of individuals, accuracy of their equipment (both intentional and unintentional) and other factors that are completely out of your control.
- You can accept or reject them, but they are there in every form.
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A person can focus on the Process Goal - I had a “rabbit” to chase and I pushed so darn hard for 10 minutes above threshold to try and catch them. - and consider that a solid workout that may or not be possible without that carrot dangling out there.
- “Racing” in real life and in virtual can serve as additional motivation that drives us harder than a “workout”. It can act as a different type of motivation that may be beneficial.
- It also acts as something that adds variability and uncertainty to a “race/workout”. The fact that you are in a group that can act in a number of ways is a challenge in its own right. You don’t necessarily know when they will hit hard, how long they will go, and where it will happen. That level of demand is worthwhile compared to a structured interval where each and every second of the effort is timed, regulated and well known. That great unknown is worthwhile from a mental standpoint that may be beneficial for real races outside.
My overall point is that we can choose how to look at the virtual races. If we are resting our ego, self worth, or training evaluation on those efforts, I think that is the wrong focus. There are way too many things out of your control (even if cheating weren’t an issue) to leave those outcomes and the feelings of them to that race situation and results.
I see racing as an opportunity to push yourself in ways you don’t necessarily get in regular workouts. First or last, you can get an amazing effort from yourself when you are trying to catch or hang on to wheels, even in the digital space.
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In the end, everyone has their own opinion and what works for them. I want to get faster, TR gets me there with structure and it fits my lifestyle and goals.
I could see doing races on Zwift here and there, I mean why not? It’s fun to put down a hard unstructured effort every once in a while and if you’re stuck indoors then I think that only helps keep you motivated to train. Same as early season races, and if it gives you something to chase after during that hard effort, then go for it!
I see most of my friends either riding around in Zwift or just doing a bunch of races - can’t wait to drop them in the spring.
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Well put.
You should start an outcome/process thread about FTP along the lines of this advice. It would do a lot of cyclists a world of good.
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My only question is when everyone says they get a great workout doing a Zwift race is it any better than a good structured TR workout? I’ve looked over my power data and friends on Strava after Zwift races and compared them to TR workouts. If I’m honest with myself I feel like the right TR workout does a better job getting me in the zones and keeping me there. Not to mention if you really race on Zwift for results you will find the guys who win usually have the least amount of watts/kg because they are kings of sitting in. So do you race for the “workout” or the “position”? There is no correct answer but something I struggle with and that’s what keeps me dedicated to TR right now.
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I haven’t done a Zwift race, but starting in March will be swapping the Thur TR workout for Wed night group rides that serve as practice races. In prep for upcoming outdoor season my TR training calendar is already customized so that TR’s Tue workout is on Monday, Thursday is on Wed, etc., etc. The TR Thursday workout is a hard workout, so the outdoor ride is a good substitute although a little higher TSS usually in 150-170 range.
I don’t see the difference between those weekly outdoor rides and Zwift races. In fact I’m seeing a number of guys I ride with on Wed that are already doing Zwift races when its raining.
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If all you look at is the power output, the answer will vary. I know that I did several Zwift races around September and hit Season PR’s as well as some All-Time PR’s. That was due in part to still rising fitness, but was largely due to the “racing” I did.
I think it is possibly rare to get PR’s in workouts. Based on my experience, the info from the AACC podcast and others, we are more likely to get those PR’s in races and events. Zwift races present that very opportunity to push well past a prescribed workout.
- A prescribed workout is set to specific percentages of your FTP. They set that power target and duration in effort with an objective of stressing the body in a specific way that leads to a desired adaptation in the body.
- A Zwift race is effectively open ended. The maximal effort and time are open and unknown. A person can and will apply as much or as little effort as they can do or are willing to suffer.
- Key points I mentioned above are the fact that you don’t know when, where, how long, or how hard you need to go in those efforts to take part in the race. Drafting is key in Zwift racing, so just like real life, you are often required to put out large efforts to hold in a group.
- That leads to 2 huge aspects in my opinion.
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- The maximal effort and duration you apply is purely up the race demands and your ability/willingness to attempt to match them. There is not point where anyone says “ok, 300w for 30 seconds and now let’s take a breather”. It’s a race, just like outside and you have to do what you have do to stay where you want in the field.
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- The pure fact that everything is unknown is a huge mental challenge. “Can I hold on for 10 more seconds?”, “When will this pack let up?”, “Have I blown my energy to hang with the group and will I have any gas left for the sprint?”, and many other questions play in a person’s mind during races. It can be and is as real as an outside race, if you want it to be.
- You can consider it a competition and put as much physical effort and mental stress into it as you would any other event/race.
So, for those reasons, I see a Zwift race as something very different from a “pure workout”.
I think it varies. There is race craft that comes into play, and while not a direct match to outside, I find there to be a real test in the Zwift races that is worthy of the challenge to the mind. I think it serves as a practice race in that sense, and it worthwhile on that merit alone, if that matters to a rider.
So, even it the main focus is on mental test and the physical one is at or below the “workout” equivalent, I think it may well be worthwhile.
As with any event (inside or out) you can consider what you want to get from it. That basic premise exists whether you can see the sun or you’re watching pixels on a screen. It’s all about tools, evaluating what they offer, how that meshes with your goals, and choosing the one (or likely combination) that meets your needs.
I see the inside racing as another tool in the shed and it can be a very useful one, especially when mixed in the right blend of an overall training plan.
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Let us know how that goes😉
In all seriousness though, you’ll actually see lots of people doing structured workouts during races, or using them to for a specific purpose. Eg, find a race with hills equivalent to the desired effort you need to do and ride them at the specified power. Just like you’d do in real life. Racing on Zwift will get to sharp for racing on the road.
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This is a big week I had at the end of my season. I nailed some PR’s in an outside ride (25th) and each Zwift Ride/Race I did that week (circled in red).
It was around the 5th highest TSS for my year and had some big numbers that I pulled from myself. I let the reins go since it was the end of my racing year and poured everything I had into each of those events.
I had different goals with each event and hit a different time range for the efforts each one presented. These events allowed me to push well beyond what we typically do in a given workout.
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