Is Powermatch + ERG more erratic than power from the trainer


#1

Just bought an Elite Drivo V1. Came off of a Rock and Roll with my Stages Left only.

I tried my first ride today and my power was much more erratic with this setup than it was manually tracking and adjusting my power. Is this normal? Is it due to or accentuated by powermatch and ERG chasing the more variable power data from the crank? Showing +26 on an interval with ERG was super upsetting because I feel like I threw away a large wad of cash and gained nothing.

If I retest my FTP with the trainer not in powermatch and use that value will I have more consistent power profiles and keep my SS workouts from turning in to over unders?


#2

Some related discussion on PowerMatch and ERG:


#3

Thanks, sounds like it may be smoother without power match or I should have bought a KICKR instead :frowning:


#4

Generally, trainers have some form of mechanical smoothing such as a fly wheel but when you use PowerMatch, the power that shows up in the app is coming from your power meter which doesn’t have any smoothing. You can set up power smoothing so that the power numbers don’t jump around as much but that won’t change how jumpy the graph is.


#5

I use a KICKR '17 and a Stage R. I had too many problems using power match - it seems like the trainer and power meter were constantly fighting for control, making erg mode power very erratic. I have ended up using the KICKR as the power source and the Stages for cadence only. I have power match turned off and have gone through the wahoo software to ensure there is nothing turned on that looks like conflicting with TrainerRoad. For example, control KICKR with powermeter is off, erg mode smoothing is off and so on. I’m quite happy with the consistency I get now. The only problem, and it’s not really a problem, is the Stages and KICKR are about 8-10 watts different, e.g 200W on KICKR is 190-192 on Stages. So my FTP on a KICKR ramp test might be 250W but Stages thinks 240-242. If I let Stages control the TrainerRoad workout it gets very hard especially during over/under workouts.


#6

My combination of a Quarq DZero and Tacx Neo working really well together with power match. The response time is very fast and everything seems to work like it should. A steady cadence helps keep things smooth, but even when making cadence changes the system adapts quite quickly.


#7

Likewise for me - I have a Kickr Core and P1 pedals and powermatch works great for me. Also worked great with a first generation Kickr and a couple other power meters.


#8

I have a quarq Dzero and a elite directo. What seemed to help quite a bit for power match was to stay in the small ring up front and big ring in the back, when I’m in these gears it just responds so much faster.


#9

I’m in the camp that has PowerMatch turned off. I moved from a KK Road with virtual power, to same with a 4iiii Left only, to an Elite Direto. With PowerMatch on, ERG mode felt pretty erratic, as if three parties – me, the 4iiii, and the trainer – were wrestling each other. Now TR gets power from the Direto’s optical sensor only, and that has calmed things down.

So what about outside rides compared to inside? I was hoping for a reasonable correlation between the 4iiii and Direto, so I did a bunch of inside rides with TR power data coming from the Direto, and with my Edge 520 recording the 4iiii. I then exported these and used DC Rainmaker’s Analyzer to compare them. I found that in my working range the 4iiii reads consistently 10% higher. As it happens, the 4iiii app gives you the ability to offset the watts up or down. So I applied a .9 correction, and it stays at that setting (unless I modify it again). Occasionally I do a test indoor and run it through the Analyzer again. They agree enough for me. I don’t know which is closer to an objective standard.

Here is a link to Rainmaker’s handy tool: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/analyzer

I think a few uses are free, and then you kick in a few bucks if you want unlimited access. Takes a while to figure out the wrinkles, but it’s very useful for comparing how different devices see the same workout.

The Direto seems to me sturdy, consistent, and likely durable – as hardware. I’d almost bet that some of the frustrations with Elite stuff could be addressed with firmware updates – but so far they seem pretty cagey about when if ever that will happen. I second the suggestion to use the small chainring in front for ERG mode. I use whatever cog in back gives the straightest chain line.


#10

That’s true in Direto, Drivo. Tested.


#11

Thanks. I am kicking myself for not getting a KICKR now. I will try the small ring and hunt for the power offset like suggested. If I feel ok today I will just do a ramp test and record on 2 devices so I can use the drivo by itself if I need to.


#12


Stages is the top test
Drivo is the bottom test
(done at the same time stages via bluetooth to phone, Drivo via ant+ to PC)
Delta

Did my ramp test and the data was interesting…
(I live at 7600 ft and am reasonably light so don’t laugh)
It may be hard to see, but the stages said I was putting out more power than the Drivo right up to my FTP and then they switched and the Stages said I put out less power than the Drivo.

Trainerrooad said 210FTP for Stages and 211FTP for Drivo.

As long as the deviation stayes around my FTP I think I can train without powermatch. The Drivo is much better without powermatch, I can hear and feel it reacting faster.

(I could also return the Drivo, pay $150 more and get a KICKR Core) Hmm…