Kolie Moore's FTP test protocol

Thanks - do get this point. As with all of this, it shows that different are approaches are rarely “right” or “wrong”, but often just better at accomplishing different things. Likewise, there’s always the issue of following protocols incorrectly (e.g. doing over unders “too hard”), which is separate question.

Should probably be more specific: if your primary focus is to raise your power at MLSS, and your TTE, then might there be some rationale for prioritising longer threshold work - especially if you find you can get more work done if O/Us particularly wipe you out?

If your target events are long TTs, which won’t have any long periods spent over FTP, then there’s less priority to be accorded to an ability to cope with the physiological processes associated with riding over FTP. If you’re racing road races with lots of hard efforts, though, there’d seem to be more reason to prioritise O/Us.

Aware it remains complex because obviously being over or under FTP isn’t a neat distinction, there’s still anaerobic work being done below or at it, etc.)

Rarely one way to skin a cat and a lot depends on the individual and their specific goals. Definitely don’t mean to imply that O/Us are “wrong” - more wondering whether there might be case to de-prioritise them if you’re chasing, above all else, an increase in (TTE@) FTP.

Totally. As @DarthShivious said, if the cookie cutter plan doesn’t fit, you don’t have to use it.

If you’re truly after only an increase in TTE@FTP (e.g. low VLaMax) then yes, probably O/U workouts won’t be your bread and butter.

Awesome. I think this is key.

2 Likes

HOWEVER. There might be a time in a rider’s season where he or she should be spending time riding above FTP—by doing O/U or VO2max work. Be it for psychological gains or in order to increase aerobic capacity. Not a sports physiologist, but I would think that this could help TTE@FTP by lifting the aerobic ceiling.

@jackkellam Over/unders are an integral part of any training program, even for someone with a TT focus since they’re excellent at raising FTP and in some respects TTE as well. I don’t see why everyone is arguing here, these training methods all paths to the same mountaintop.

I have no idea what “TR style” is.

2 Likes

Lol - clearly just me overthinking it!

TR style was only meant to indicate the common 2min over 2 min under for 12 mins etc. that feature in the training plans.

O/U format workouts have some nice benefits mentally too. Once you get over the intimidation part. So to speak.

Indoors, its nice to change pace and stay engaged with the workout. Powering along at a flat 95-100% of FTP for an hour is hard and pretty darn boring. I’d much rather do 1x45 or 2x30 O/U mixing it up a bit. Is one any better than the other? Who cares, they don’t pay me to ride this thing in my basement :-]

It stings to go 105-110% FTP then settle back into 95-100% That is a good mental training to develop lactate tolerance from a brain perspective. Even in flat time trials there are generally times when you want to give it a pop to keep pace over a roller or coming out of a turn.

Linking bouts is a good way to increase the work for TR programs if your FTP isn’t climbing but you are getting stronger and working on your TTE / durability. For example if you wanted to cycle the SSB plans you can start skipping recovery segments as you get stronger.

Good Over/Under workouts to “link” bouts:

McAdie -1 is 4x9 2min @ 95% + 1min @105% with 6 minute recovery periods. If you do two more 2/1 segments across the rest can turn this into a nice 2 x 24 (48 min) workout.

Warlow -1 is same structure as McAdie except the Over is 110% instead of 105%.

Palisade -1 is 4x9 with a 6 minute recovery. If you do two 1 min / 2 min across the rest you can make this a nice 2 x 24 (48 min) instead of 4 x 9 (36 min).

This applies for other workouts as well. Lamarack goes from 4x10 with 2 min rest to 2 x 22

and … we are way off topic but some tricks and stuff always fun.

1 Like

Have another look through the workouts, you’ll find very few Classic ‘2min @95% x 2min @105%’ sessions contained within Training Plans. There are 2 by my quick count, so TR users aren’t really doing a lot of “common” O/U work! They are mostly those weird spire-type ramps.

You forgot Dana. 120% overs. This thread is getting off topic.

Have you tried calculating critical power using two max effrts of suitably long duration (e.g. 5 min and 20 min) in the TT position?

The error on TTE estimates is very large (as determined by the flatness of the power-duration curve at this point), and in a relatively well trained cyclist you should have no problem maintaining FTP for at least 40 mins. The flatness of the curve also means that it is quite difficult to feel what is sustainable - the symptoms your riding on the TT bike basically describe setting off slighlt too hard in a TT/trying to ride at slightly too high a power.

I think it is a far more likley explanation that your FTP on the TT bike is less than you think it is.

1 Like

I tried the workout created by @alexgold123 yesterday. In reading through the thread on this I was under the impression that we take the test based on our “target” FTP? So, I loaded up the test and then set the difficulty to 105%. Assuming that my target FTP was 5% higher than what I have it set at now in TR

I only completed 45 minutes total of the test.

I did the ten minutes at 103% of my FTP. Then 15 minutes at 105% of my FTP (and then bailed out).

Am I doing this correctly? Should I have left the difficulty level at 100% and then went longer in the test (assuming I’d go longer I suppose).

Apologies, this thread is quite long now, I should put this in the description:

Hope it was a good workout and a productive learning experience anyway!

1 Like

Pretty good! The goal is to ride somewhere between 30-70 min as I understand. This time will vary depending on fitness and other factors. Seems like a well performed test!

1 Like

I’ve updated the workout description as it may be better to find the info there if you’re looking last minute, it now reads as follows:

This is a variant of progression 1 on this article: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-physiology-of-ftp-and-new-testing-protocols/

I felt I wanted something long enough to give a realistic representation of actual FTP.

The main block starts at 98% of your current FTP for 10 minutes, before going to 102% for 20 minutres. Arriving at the end of the 20 minute block puts you at an average of 100.66%, so you can aim for that as a guaranteed result then see how far you can go from there.

If you have taken time off, or know you can easily beat the targets or just feel good during the workout you can adjust the workout difficulty manually.

To get FTP, assuming you’ve ridden at least ~25 minutes, just manually select from the start of the test interval to where you stopped in workout analysis - the average power is your result.

The last sentence is debatable, but it’s better than nothing I suppose!

1 Like

He only rode 25 minutes of the test interval, but way over power - splitting the difference I’d say even at an 0.96 multiplier he’s still beaten his listed FTP, so that’s good IMO!

2 Likes

Oh, I see now. 45 min total!

Thanks for the further clarification, I really appreciate you taking the time.

In the end I bumped my FTP up 5 watts. And I’ve completed 2 workouts of the Sustained Power Build program at about just the right effort level.

I’m replacing the Ramp Test with your workout as it’s a better protocol for my goals this year.

Thanks again for the feedback!

3 Likes

I’m looking for an accurate measure of what it feels like to hold my FTP and how long I can hold it for before I go away on a training camp (ok holiday). Currently I think I have three options.

  1. do the ramp test on tuesday as normal and then do this test on the thursday as part of my taper

  2. As above but do the FTP Challenge on the thursday instead

  3. or just do this test instead of the ramp test and taper as normal

Anyone who’s tried the test have any thoughts?

I would just do this. I don’t see any reason to do the Ramp Test and then follow it up with this test.

2 Likes

Mostly as I want a benchmark of what type of result the ramp test gives, I suspect it usually overstates my ftp so for it would be useful to compare the two