My Polarized Training Experience (Chad McNeese & others)

That makes much more sense! Thanks for clarifying.

I’ve also looked back and I’m closer to 1/3rd indoor than 1/2. Have you found you can do near to 100% power, personally, on the trainer as what you can do outside? I’m at least 5% higher outside across all durations, but I’ve been in SSB to prep for a triathlon following into road race base season and I’ve definitely progressed on the muscular endurance for both.

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I think I am close to the same, but probably not 100%. Maybe 95-98% depending on the day. I am have worked hard on my cooling and airflow to make sweating and heat buildup essentially a non-issue for my training room.

Even on my hardest workouts, I rarely have more than 5 drops of sweat reach the floor. I am a profuse sweater outside, and strive to make my airflow and cooling prevent any sweat drops inside. So I think I have that part nailed. I also use Zwift for distraction and motivation, but I think I can still pull a bit harder in real world situations.

For reference, based on your comment about hard rides inside, I did a very challenging Zwift ride/race.

  • Log In to TrainerRoad

  • It was 5 hours at 0.8 IF with 324 TSS, and I was crushed at the end.

  • I underfueled which was not intentional, but really hampered my final lap in the race.

  • Despite that issue, I nailed a BUNCH of power PR’s (All-Time and current season) so I was able to use the pack effect to push me harder than I likely would on my own.

  • Overall point being that I think you can push yourself as hard as you want in side, even for extremely long events like the one I did.

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Updated the OP with last nights workout.

I also added direct links to each related workout right in the header of each workout comment, for quick access to see the related workout…

Come on, guys…you’re giving our demographic a bad name! :laughing:
I’m older than both of you(!!!) and I still get a kick out of Vmax sessions!
Do NOT go gentle into that good night…of VO2max intervals! :leg::muscle:

Similar to the original Koichi/Tabata protocol: 8x20/10 @200% FTP (4x/week for 6 weeks).
The original test subjects, world-class speed skaters, found it very hard with some failing around interval #7.
Interestingly, Dr. Tabata found that 30s/2min @ 200% VO2 was not as effective as the 20/10 protocol at taxing the aerobic and anaerobic systems (+28% anaerobic, +15% VO2max).

So for all TR riders who find 1 low-% VO2max session per week a challenge…it could be worse – a LOT worse!

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I love it. I am hoping to actually grow my VO2 Max by using these slightly lower levels as a stepping stone. I think that making it through those will give better results than failing at the 120%. But that’s a guess and a hope from me :wink:

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Exactly! The power zones of Dade+

look like the power zones of our local Wed night ride:

its easier to chase those VO2max outside, but a lot more recovery is required from the higher TSS!!

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2 weeks, 30x30s intervals total
Sessions 1-2 = 4 intervals; 3-4 = 5 intervals; 5-6 = 6 intervals
Intervals @250% VO2max (= 300% FTP)

I would fail each and every one.
No way I could hold my 5s power for 30s.

As @chad says, it has to be repeatable (and attainable!) power, thus the usual 110-120% FTP VO2 intervals.

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Just to clarify - I think VO2 max intervals are very hard, but I still do them :muscle::grin:

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Thanks for the update, @KatuskaMTB and @mcneese.chad !

Will be viewing this thread regularly as it is relevant to my time-crunched training and endurance-crunched body

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This is an intersteng article which explains why one persons Sweet Spot could be another’s Low Intensity even if they had similar FTP’'s

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It just depends on what type of rider you are. I’m 62 and find Sweet Spot intervals way harder than VO2 max ones. Having said that though neither are easy.

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We dicussed that info in the FB group. I find it to be very misleading in the way they combine the Threshold and Sweet Spot into the same block.

They mention it’s at the top of that block, but the graphic leads to poor conclusions IMHO.

There is really no way that true SST falls in Z1 POL for the majority of people.
There might be people where that is true, but I suspect it is a very select few.

Overall point being, claiming that SST can be considered Z1 - Low Intensity on the Polarized model is incorrect, IMHO. It’s just not likely for the vast majority of the training public. That claim only serves to lead to confusion and misdirected training.


Here is the discussion, with pics of the particular discussion below:

I found the section related to the Xert link:



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Totally agree, and I think this leads down the common trap of making easy rides too hard such that you don’t have the full 100% in the tank to really crush your hard rides.

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Have you been using Xert alongside your polarized plan as well? I find that they seem to suggest more of the HIIT work (60 - 120 second intervals at 130% FTP) rather than the Seiler 4x8 style intervals. For me I’m landing more in the Ronnestad protocol as the one I seem to “like” the best (13 minutes of 30s on and 15s off) but still sorting it all out.

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I’m not using Xert at all. I’ve looked at it, but I’ve seen enough issues mentioned about interface complaints and the option to not ride hard for letting the auto adjust feature work properly.

I like some of the concepts it seems to offer, but planned to wait and let it mature first.

I’m actually hoping TR may adopt some aspects of it so I can stay nice and cozy in this side of the app world. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Updated OP with last Z3 workout notes for this test period.

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Just curious, with all the modern science and medicine and technology, why don’t we have a more definitive answer as to what type of training elicits the best response?

Is cloning a human actually that much more simple than figuring out physical training regiments?! :man_shrugging:

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Despite the presence of similarities between us all as humans, we are also still individuals and not identical machines.

Genetics, nutrition, training history, work/life stress and many other variables will lead to variations (some subtle, some major) and all lead to differences in effectiveness of any training approach.

Hence the need to try some things, evaluate the effectiveness, and adjust as needed. There will likely be improvements over time (via research, learning, and technology improvements to name a few), but we will likely never have absolute “this works for everyone, all the time” types of solutions.

As they TR guys say, when you get into training like this, you embark into a world of constant trial, failure, review, learning and success (hopefully). :stuck_out_tongue:

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Not forgetting contradiction and confusion!

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