Our Training Plans are Improving

You could go either way. If you’re dreading the long slow stuff of traditional base it might be good to go SSB, build, rest a bit, then into a full cycle.

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Thanks. Since I just started Traditional Base 3 with a new FTP best :grinning:, I’m gonna just ride (pun intended) this Traditional thing out. Plus I don’t want to miss out on doing Mount Bear and Mount Alice :weary:

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I see that individual workouts are changing too, e.g. last week Bashful +6 had VO2 repeats at 125%, now it is repeats at 122%. This might happen all the time but I have never noticed before.

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Or Gendarme +3 for that matter. Being the second Tuesday session of SSB MVII.

Can’t stand those workouts.

Nate, I highly appreciate your opinion. Has someone looked into this, why do the best riders not train this way? Have they tried and failed? Or do they just not believe in the polarized method. Has Steven Seiler really not backed up that 80:20 enough? I know Seiler has a lot of data on nordic skiers, rowers, runners (cyclists?)… and the success of Norwegian athletes speaks for itself. So, if there is data that supports 80:20 is not really better, I would really appreciate it, if you could tell us more. I have seriously been thinking of switching to polarized training, mainly because I believe that I would recover better between intense workouts.

@jomu, If you haven’t seen them, there are 3 really good threads already covering Polarized in great depth.

I would love to see a time stamp or change history included in a given training plan. Perhaps it’s not overt in visibility, but a way for us to see what changes are implemented and when, perhaps note as to why.

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We’ll have this for our build plan updates that are coming soon, but it will just live in the forum and on the blog.

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Semi related thing to the training plans that definitely falls in the “our training plans are improving” category: I’d love to see every workout that is in a plan have a -1, -2, etc. variant. A lot do, but not all of them do. My situation at the moment doesn’t allow me to train before or after work, but I can run home quick at lunch and squeeze 45 minutes in. I’d love to be able to switch a 60 minute workout to a 45 for every workout that is in my calendar from a plan (I’m following sweet spot base right now). That would be so much easier than trying to drag my finger to the right spot to start and then trying to figure out where I need to stop and not be late back to work!

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My theory…because they’ve already spent a TON of time training 80/20 when they were not a “best rider”. They’ve already baked-in all those long-ride cellular adaptations (perhaps even to biological limits). Now their lives are basically spent racing and recovering. The best riders (aka pro riders) most likely do a mixture of 80/20 and periodized training, once everything is accounted for.

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80/20 still follows a periodization.

Super stoked about the tweeks you have planned! Sounds like you could definitely head in the direction of more individualized training plans. I know for me after completing SSB 1-2 I feel like a stud ( relatively) but hen I begin build phase and feel like I haven’t been training at all! I just an average joe but man when I saw this I got excited and can’t wait to see where TR goes with this! Keep up the good work.

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Any chance that TR is starting to look at some adapative training? Yes the ramp test is a great starting place. But surely every work out could be used as such. If one fails several workouts or has to turn down the intensity several times could softwear not make some adaptations to future training intensity or volume. To take it one step future say one is undergoing a training plan for a specific goal let’s pick cyclocross where some known traits are needed vs others like aerobic power. Yet it appears as if I am unable to produce as much aerobic power at VO2 (approximations) as the algorithm calculates I should. But I need this adaptation to occur in the coming weeks for My performance goal, the software could in it self alter the selected workouts to play to my needs and constrained physiology. Ooooooo the possibilities cheers

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This is REALLY interesting stuff.

Have you looked into cardiac drift (read: numerical derivative of the HR data) during VO2max/threshold/sweet spot intervals? Could there be value in investigating this? The main things I am using HR data for: 1) How fast does the HR change during the interval? 2) How does the HR peak and drift compare from interval to interval?

Keep on doing what you are doing! MOAR DATA! :star_struck:

EDIT:

For example this happens when the DC current through an electromagnetic coil is switched on and off:

Green is the external voltage, red is the induced current through the coil, and blue is the induced voltage (up to a constant factor this is the derivative of the red curve).

Does this look familiar to you? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: The colors are almost right…

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What volume plans are you attempting? I’m over 40 and a good number of other TR athletes are I understand so you shouldn’t be feeling like an outsider. I’ll be honest I only ever attempt low volume plans even though I can handle more volume - I mentally like to know I’m completing the plans rather than skipping workouts and happy to add extra workouts if time allows, or ride outside.
If the plans are too hard, maybe the plan you’re trying to follow doesn’t suit your strengths? I’ve found the VO2 workouts really tough this year but I know I prefer the longer steady state type efforts so after SSB I’m going to take 2 or 3 weeks and just work on VO2 and see what, if any improvements I make. I’m thinking I may have to start these with a lower FTP, or dial down the intensity but I’ll see how the first couple of sessions go.

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I love when people take the leap! :grin:

If any?! Obviously you underestimate the power of the Dark Side! Do 3-4 sessions a week for 3 weeks and you’ll be flying. Have you read @chad’s take on doing exactly what you’re planning to do?

I have - that’s where I got the idea from!

Awesome! :+1: Good luck with it & always remind yourself that it’s literally making you a faster cyclist.

How come there are no changes to the SSB High Volume plans? I looked through the forum but couldn’t spot anything that explains why it’s only Low and Mid.

Because HV contains only SS workouts.

LV & MV contain VO2max and Threshold workouts; those were the workouts that were altered.

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