Our Training Plans are Improving

plans

#62

We do this! We look at first workouts and “Abbot” was too high up in the list! This is why you now see the Ramp Test pinned to the top of your workout lists.

There’s more improvements around this that we want to do.


#63

Thanks Nate.
No avoiding the pain :wink:
The joy of beating a PB whether an all time PB or a course PB etc makes it worthwhile.
That and being able to compete and race others makes TT’s very popular over here.


#64

Welcome changes.

As others noted at first a part of me was afraid that the plans would just become a bit easier to please towards the average user.

But as I understand it now we are all just part of a mass study to fine tune some minor details of the structured plans that are still backed as good as before by traditional training science (and all the suffering needed).


#65

Do you detect users with wrong set FTP (I guess you could since there was some talk about auto adjusting FTP recently) and do you exclude their data from your calculations?

What would be the threshold value for a wrong set FTP in watt or % of FTP?


#66

I’m also a bit concerned about this. So what if you are one of those who have been “compliant” on the workouts at issue? I have rarely failed a workout and those couple that I have failed, I’ve gone back later and successfully completed them. More often than not, I’ve been surprised at how much text if devoted in some workouts to reducing the intensity level, skipping intervals, backspining, etc. I’ve had to up the intensity many more times than reduce it. I would hate to see workouts get easier.

I guess this is the difference between a custom individualized training plan for an individual and what works for a statistical sampling of people. Maybe the solution for at least some of us is to use our experience to guide us for potential workout substitutions for what’s in the general plan?


#67

I don’t understand the bit about those of us completing the workouts are “sandbagging” and not trying hard enough. If you mean not trying to fail, then you’re darn right about that.

It would be interesting to know more about the failure rate vs parameters like FTP, age, weight, sex, experience level, type of rider, etc. For example, I am a pretty light guy with a decent W/kg FTP (~4), but probably a lower overall FTP (225). Do those with a higher FTP also have a higher failure rate because their load is so much higher? Or maybe those who are better sprinters than TTers find the VO2max workouts “easier” and the long over/under intervals “harder” than those who are better TTers than sprinters?


#68

Awesome work! Got to love data analytics, keep it up.


#69

Ahh, so some things do get better with age!!:grin:

I’m 61 and have a very low (almost nonexistent) failure rate. Most of the harder workouts I find challenging, but I always feel like I can finish them.

One thing I found that helped me was to do the workouts on Zwift. The longer intervals seem much more bearable when I am distracted by visuals of terrain and other riders.


#70

The changes are pretty minor. You mention going back and completing a failed workout. Some of our changes are just putting a workout in a different spot in the plan. IE right after you do a ramp test it’s too soon to do that workout.

And you can always go to a +1 version if you really want to punish yourself.

If you’re constantly having to up the intensity I suggest you nudge up your FTP by 5 watts and see how that feels.


#71

This is great stuff @Nate. I really like what you guys are doing.


#72

I guess some need the hard workouts for the mental game (“how bad do you want it”)…maybe also failure…

Is there such thing as a (single) “breakthrough” workout/effort I sometimes hear of? And what is this concept and is there science behind it?


#73

Yes yes yes!! :zipper_mouth_face:

I’m sorry I’m cryptic sometimes. Ya’ll are really smart and people always comment on bits of our roadmap. I dont want to share everything because I don’t want to give any other companies an advantage.


Intensity Factor and TSS when extending cooldown or warmup
#74

I wish you will change the triathlon plans or create an alternate ones. Such as drop the 3+ hour rides on the weekends and substitute with sweetspot type workouts in the base and more threshold & vo2 work in the build phase.
I make these changes on my end anyways. Just a suggestion.
Ohh one more wish. More training plans please. I just don’t want to repeat same plans year over year.
Keep up the great work!


#75

Is there a way to tag a workout that I had to quit early not because of failure but lack of time? Baby woke up early , or at 0400 I hit the snooze button and a cant get my whole ride in before work. I don’t want to contribute to inaccurate data. Cheers and keep up the good work


#76

this is awesome! i can already see my SSMV has changed so my VO2 looks more manageable - epic news - TR truly the best - salute!


#77

I would think there would be a higher rate of attrition as FTP goes up because just going by percentage throws things off, depending how you look at things (i.e. 120% intervals @ 250W = 300W (50W bump), 120% intervals @ 300W FTP = 360W (60W bump). I think those 60W above 300W are also harder to attain than 50W above 250W as the power curve isn’t linear, but I may be confusing that with power to speed or just dumb trainer power curves…


#78

I think this is the key piece of advice which should lay people’s fear to rest about TR plans getting too easy.

As an individual if you are completing every workout and it feels comfortable then you should up the intensity or switch out to a + version of the workout. Simple.


#79

Did you do any regression modelling to understand this or was it based on descriptive statistics?


#80

I completed it last year. For me there were other workouts I struggled more with like Mary Austin.


#81

I’m so glad you re-tweaked the SSB plans! Having failed Gendarme +3 and English after swapping my plan to match, I was getting dejected. I can see the ones you’ve added in are still hard but I think I might stand a better chance with those. I was dreading doing Agassiz -1 next week and will definitely replace it with Mills, which I know I can complete (albeit not easily).
To be honest the only workout I couldn’t complete in the “old” SSB plans was Kaiser, so to see that replaced with a similar workout but with an extra 60 seconds recovery between intervals makes me feel you’ve got this nailed now. For anyone like me who finds VO2 workouts a weakness, I feel personally it is the shorter recoveries which most contribute to failure, and something that needs to be trained and built progressively.
In fact I may well repeat SSB2 so I can try the revised set of VO2 workouts again in order, to help build me up for the harder ones to come in Build (and allow time for you to tweak those!).
Chapeau!