Outdoor hill climbs are a bit of a shock after so much indoor riding and structured workouts!

That’s why this exists :smiley:

Climbing Simulator for Indoor Bike Trainer | KICKR CLIMB | Wahoo Fitness

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That has 4 different settings with a selection knob on the flywheel?

Which setting are you using?

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I agree with the points above. The trainer is good for tempo, steady-state, and VO2MAX intervals, but climbing has to be done on the road. Core strength, arm strength, leg stabilization, and position are completely different on road climbs. It’s best to mix actual road climbs with intervals on the trainer to be the most well rounded.

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Thanks for all the replies. I think the bottom line is that I need to do some hill reps outside. Probably just 30min to 1 hour outside a week specifically on hills will sort this out for me.

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Quote: “That has 4 different settings with a selection know on the flywheel? Which setting are you using?”

All these 4 settings do is increase the weight of the fly wheel, effectively increasing the resistance. It still doesn’t really replicate the bodies muscle uses going up a hill etc.

That’s not true. It alters the position of the spring-balanced magnets in the flywheel. What it changes is the proximity of the magnets to the aluminum that generates the resistance. As a result, it alters the power curve and the effective wheel speed that particular resistance is available.


CycleOps Power Curve Info Page
SuperMag-1


TrainerRoad SuperMagneto Pro Page
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The resistance roughly doubles at the same speed (20 mph and higher) between the lowest and the highest resistance settings.


Official CycleOps Video:


As such, you can use the “Mountain” setting to get more resistance at a lower wheel speed. It is essentially a limited version of what we do with smart trainers in lower gearing.

If you get the same resistance at a lower wheel speed, the flywheel spins slower, and will be a bit closer to the lower rolling inertia when climbing outside.


All that said, what setting have you been using?

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I could be wrong about this, but I feel like some of this also has to do with upper body strength. Recently I entered a mountain biking race (single-speed with some climbing) after a few months of indoor training and felt like my arms were jello after a while and I wasn’t getting the assist in rocking the bike back and forth that I used to when I was doing more outdoor training. If you take the arms out of the equation, wouldn’t that also reduce your climbing capacity?

Upper body strength can matter, but I find it is a lower factor for road riding.

In your example, single-speed MTB, there is a HUGE level of effort required to make that work. It is vastly different from a road bike with gearing options and presumably “normal” cadence and pedaling. SSMTB is a difficult and rare beast in comparison.

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This is probably the answer more than anything about cadence/gradient angle etc.

What plan have you been doing?

If you haven’t done any type of shorter effort training, it is not surprising that you are having a tough time with these hills on the group ride where you can’t choose your pace up the climbs.

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I did a couple crits that had hills lasting about 1-2 minutes. SSB, Short Power Build, and Crit Specialty touch on these but not close to the extent that I did in the races and it showed. On a power to weight curve, the shorter TR intervals in those plans don’t come close to the curves used in WKO to help compare data to the different class categories. I realize that WKO curves are not the end all but they’re a guide nonetheless.

Anything 8+ minutes long, my data looks good for where I’m at but everything under 8 minutes isn’t near the same level.

If you are stuck indoors or live in the flat lands, Zwift does a pretty decent job of simulating climbs if you have a smart trainer and pick the right routes.

TR can get you in shape to climb but it not going to make you run out of gears or force you to do long intervals outside your preferred cadence and power ranges. You can kind of do that yourself but its easier to do that if the simulated (or real … . .) grade is forcing it on you.

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The Zwift recommendation doesn’t apply to the OP since he has a standard (dumb) trainer. But it may work for others reading this, if they have smart trainers and want to pay for a 2nd subscription. I do agree there are good uses of Zwift for an instance like this.


But you can easily leverage TR to get similar efforts from the trainer applied to your body. Proper gear selection for desired flywheel inertia, and related cadences choices in ERG mode with a smart trainer can yield the same basic results as “climbing” in Zwift.

The core issue is cadence along with flywheel speed. You can work a wide range via ERG mode and deliberate use of the trainer and bike gearing. It’s one of the advantages that a smart trainer has over a standard trainer.

That flexibility can be applied to many types of intervals, in whole or part, and at some or all of them within a TR workout. Looking beyond the simple interval itself and thinking about how it relates to equivalent workout outside is the key. Then apply the various tools and tricks above to make them work for your intended goals or event.

I have done a TON of “hill work” over the last 2 years (in ERG with many different TR workouts) once I realized the best ways to mimic my needs with the trainer and workouts. It just takes a bit of planning and application within the workouts, but can yield great results with minimal extra work.

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Coming from someone who only uses rollers indoors, it takes a few weeks outdoors of some highers torque + high power sessions before climbing feels like it should.

The TR plan hardly has me going over 400 watts, but that is pretty common outdoors when hitting a short climb.

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But you can easily leverage TR to get similar efforts from the trainer applied to your body. Proper gear selection for desired flywheel inertia, and related cadences choices in ERG mode with a smart trainer can yield the same basic results as “climbing” in Zwift.

@mcneese.chad, can you expand on that or point to the appropriate discussion thread (that I admittedly didn’t search for myself :pensive:)? What is the appropriate settings if I wanted to simulate hill climbing on my Cyclops Magnus? Is it simply just picking a suitable low gear such that the wheel speed/flywheel is sufficiently slow enough? What defines sufficiently slow enough would be the follow-up question.

Thanks

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For approximating the feel, loading and demands of hills while using ERG (smart trainer required):

  1. Select a low gearing on your bike while on the trainer.

    • Use the small front chainring on a road bike, and something around the middle towards the largest cog on the rear cassette.
    • This keeps the rear wheel speed lower, and that leads to a slower flywheel speed on the trainer.
    • The results is less “help” from the flywheel throughout the pedal stroke. It leads to needing to engage the muscles earlier and longer through the stroke when compared to faster gearing.
  2. Use lower cadence that is similar to the cadence you expect to use outside.

    • “Normal” cadence that ranges from 85-95 rpm for many riders.
    • “Climbing” cadence is often lower and can range from 55-75 rpm depending on the gearing on your bike, the pitch of the hill, and your weight.
    • That’s not to say that those climbing cadences are “good”, but they may be the cadence that we have to handle in some situations.
    • As usual, it is often recommended to spin more than grind with an eye towards not over-stressing the muscles or dipping into your glycogen stores as much.
    • With all that said, determine what cadence range you want to practice. Once that is done, you apply that climbing cadence range in appropriate workouts. Only you can know that, but I spend my climbing cadence practice from 60-70 rpm in most cases.
  3. Apply the gearing and cadence described above in appropriate workouts.

    • WARNING: For all of the recommendations below, start with small steps and progress gradually. Listen to your body and be mindful because this can lead to injury if done poorly or progressing too quickly
    • I like to use Endurance, Tempo and Sweet Spot Intensity intervals for my low cadence, climbing practice.
    • Start by applying the gearing and upper end of the low cadence (maybe 75 rpm) in the beginning.
    • Use this approach for about 1 minute, then return to normal cadence for 1 minute or more if needed.
    • Repeat this several times in longer intervals (6 to 15 minutes) and pay attention to your body. If your muscles or joints feel any issues, return to normal cadence and gearing.
    • As you adapt to the start above. Increase either your time at the low cadence or drop the cadence. Make only one change at a time to make sure that you don’t change too much, too soon.
    • Repeating, It is important to take this step slowly and cautiously.

How is that for a start?

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I just made a thread to be the new home for all things “Low Cadence”.

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Perfect and excellent new thread.

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Mainly using the setting TrainerRoad recommends for my trainer which from memory is setting 2 (Not near trainer right now).

I will look at the rest of the advise here that you and others have offered. Thank you.

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That makes sense especially if you are using Virtual Power for your data (I may have missed it, but don’t see it stated one way or the other above).

If that’s the case, changing to any other setting (Mountain in this case) will lead to differences in power data from all your prior use at the other setting.

If you are using a separate power meter, you will be good to experiment with the other settings and still have comparable power data.

Good luck and please share your results if you do some testing. I have always like that trainer and am curious if it can be leveraged to meet your needs.

Good luck testing and training. :smiley:

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EH, I found this while searching for good hill repeat segments in zwift.
81kg - ftp at 292 now, so a bit heavier and a bit weaker.

I find hills in zwift are nowhere close to what you find outside. not even remotely.
I currently use a 11-34 on my road bike and even larger cassettes on gravel and MTB. like those huge pizza plates they use. 11-46 11-52, respectively.

on my trainer, I put everything at 100% with an 11-25 cassette. a 38 cog up front (1x setup). To replicate the efforts outside, I try to use as the bigger cogs as little as I can. I have made a block with a 4x4 and one 2x6 to raise the front wheel. I put the Neo’s wheel riser on top of the block. If I want to replicate the speed in climbs outside, I have to add 3 to 5 kg in zwift.

With that setup, when I do get outside, in a 34-34 setup, I can keep off the biggest cog on the rear derailleur. But, you can never recreate gravity and the inertia between each turn of the crank. The speed is the same ish and the effort is same ish.

I often wonder if lighter riders have the same issue. I see those guys go uphill in wonder outside. Like rockets.

But yes, I second your conclusion. you need to get outside to train. Gravity is a b***** :smiley: