PowerMatch Experiences


#21

I agree with the above. I have the gen 1 kickr and the PowerTap P1 pedals and the kickr reads significantly higher. With power match it bounces around a lot but if the gearing is right I typically get to the target power for longer intervals. For one to three minute intervals or spikes above 110% I just use resistance mode (40% usually works well). I much prefer it compared to erg mode in general


#22

Thank you so much!!! :hugs:


#23

Update…

Per the advice above I have paired my Kickr to my ANT+ power meter in the Wahoo iPhone app and disabled PowerMatch. I know the Kickr was paired to my PM because I see the cadence data in the Wahoo App. One thing I didn’t test was if I REMOVE the PM from TrainerRoad completely if the cadence will be passed along to TrainerRoad from the Kickr.

The Kickr does not send the cadence data to TrainerRoad so the PM must stay paired to the TR app. Now the Kickr is using my PM for power, and TR using the PM for cadence.


#24

You enter the code into the Wahoo fitness app and it switches the KICKR v1s from reading the strain gauge to using the speed of the flywheel. You enter the code, “ilovecupcakes”, in wahooligan code area. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Controlling_the_Kickr_via_external_power_meter_now_possible_P5396505/


#25

Thank… I have a Kickr v1, followed this factory spin down but there is no “Brake Strength” field in my Wahoo App. I have the 1.5.68 firmware, so not sure why it’s not there. Is there another step on the conversion from the strain gauge?


#26

I too do not have the brake strength section or the ability to do an “Advanced Spindown” as shown in the vid above. Just a factory spindown which basically is the same thing they showed but again, no brake strength.


#27

Overall, my experience with Powermatch is good. I have a Kickr Snap paired to a Stages PM (7 second smoothing).

It is frustrating at times when the power drifts like 20-30W below the target for what seems like a long time and seems to struggle getting back to target. But overall, the average power of most intervals greater than one minute tend to be within a few watts of the target power. I’m fine with the power fluctuating over and and under the target as long as it averages itself out. The Powermatch isn’t as great for short and intense efforts, but I think that is largely to do with my pedal stroke becoming less smooth/even at higher power and quicker cadences.


#28

I use Tacx Bushido Smart trainer and PowerTap GS power meter in power match. There’s a fluctuation in power, but not too bad. The trainer seems to adjust reasonable quickly (about 1-2s or so) to power targets. Certainly there’s no 10-15 seconds delays, that would be very brutal.

Unlike examples in the thread, my trainer reads about 10-20 watts lower across the board compared to PM.


#29

Would it be possible to implement a more intelligent PowerMatch where each trainer gets a virtual PowerMatch profile which is self learning, either per workout och per trainer.

I am thinking like an algoritm where the offset at any given wattage is interpolated the same way as now but this offset is then stored in a PowerMatch slope-profile. Over time this slope profile would be more complete, maybe each point on the curve based on a sliding average.

This PM slope-profile could then be used to either completely override the PM-interpolation and fully trust the individual PM-slope or use the profile to define the interpolation steps in the current PM-algoritm?

Maybe it doesn´t make sense at all but it feels blunt to have the PM trying to pin point the correct power for each intervall step for a give workout like 20x30s.


#30

Perhaps they’ve removed that field because running firmware 1.5.68 w/ an advanced spindown should put it in brake power mode, aka the Kickr v2 mode. Now that I’ve done the advanced spin down I’m going back to PowerMatch. From what I’ve read it’s a much better experience with PowerMatch when using the new power measurement.


#31

I run a Elite Real Power Turbo Muin B+ and find its at least 20w below each of my Power2Max units. My only problem with power match is that every once and a while it just seems to cause erg not to react. As a result i get no resistance change and the only way to get everything working is to turn everything off and restart. Bit anoying but still workable.


#32

I’m running a KICKR2017 (latest Firmware) with a Power2Max NG.

Power Smoothing at 7 secs

PowerMatch appears to work a treat!


#33

Same setup here and also have the same problem with the single leg drills.


#34

Single leg drills on an erg trainer should probably be skipped. Or you could pause and put it in resistance mode, but that’s a hassle.


#35

RE: The update… I can’t find where in the android app to either do the “ilovecupcakes” thing OR how to assign the ANT ID of my pedals. Any help?


#36

I don’t have Android so I can’t help too much, but that thread was quite old, going back to 2015. It seems all that data pre-dates Wahoo adding the ability to use an ANT+ PM to control the Kickr. On iOS it’s there as an option, use ANT+ for PM / Cadence. The cadence one is odd, it doesn’t ask for an ANT+ ID, the PM requires it.


#37

Same issue here.

Without powermatch, when I do an ERG interval of say 200 watts, the reading from my Assiomas show about 185, and when I set powermatch, there is some lag, but still usable.


#38

Anyone using Wahoo Kickr 17 and Stages single side willing to share their settings? I’m not convinced that everything is as it should be with my setup, I feel that during threshold over/under efforts the power is not switching properly and when I try to increase my cadence the effort gets a lot harder. Here’s my setup:
Wahoo Kickr 17
iPhone Wahoo Fitness App v3.4.67
Erg Mode Speed Simulation = off
Erg Mode Power Smoothing = on
Control w/ANT+ Power Meter = off

Stages Right Power Meter
iPhone Stages App Firmware 1.2.0

Connected to TrainerRoad via ANT+
Kickr settings: Mode = Erg; Power Match = Auto

I use the TrainerRoad Windows PC App.

I tried the settings once where I used the Stages for cadence only and the experience was awful. The power fluctuated and surged during the workout like the two power meters were constantly fighting each other. In my current settings I feel like they’re not fighting but I also feel the workouts get too hard (maybe they’re meant to be that hard).
One thing I do notice, when I review my workouts, TrainerRoad sometimes reports the Kickr as the power source and sometimes reports the Stages as the power source. I have an unsubstantiated feeling that when Stages is the power source the workout is harder.
One other possibly relevant setting. i normally workout using TrainerRoad and Zwift, I connect to Zwift with a different ANT+ dongle and ensure that Kickr is not selected as a controllable trainer. I’m not convinced this affects anything but to be sure I’ll do my next workout without Zwift.


#39

@Jayacher. The option to assign ant id for third party pm is only available on the Apple iphone/ipad version of the Wahoo Fitness app.


#40

Another bit of data.

I have an Elite Dorito-I-mean-Direto :slight_smile: and Favero Assioma Duo pedals. Today, I forgot to put on sunscreeen, realized part way into my outside ride, so turned around, came home (sunburn avoided) and climbed Alpe du Zwift on the trainer using my Wahoo Bolt to control the trainer (which the Bolt calls a Kickr, go figure). I ramped up a bit of warmup, then set the Bolt at an upper endurance power and stepped it up 15 watts over the climb.

Looking at 97 minutes of stable power, Zwift, recording the Assioma, reports 160 NP, 154 Avg, 71 TSS, 900kJ, calculated in Golden Cheetah. The Bolt, recording the Direto, reports 149 NP, 143 Avg, 62 TSS and 836 kJ. So, the Direto’s PM is reading about 10W (7-ish %) lower than the Assioma. I’m betting on the pedals being more accurate than the trainer. That variance (7-8%) is consistent with what I’ve observed other times I’ve controlled the Direto with the Bolt, so the Direto may not be super accurate, but it is consistent.

I calibrated my Direto and Assioma a couple of weeks ago, but neither is supposed to require frequent calibration.

In TR, my experience is that power match needs about 10 seconds to pull the Direto up/down to the TR targets. I run TR on a Galaxy S4 over ANT+. Don’t know if the old phone affects how quickly power match responds. Needless to say, I don’t do microbursts with this setup, but I’m okay with that for now.

If I change my mind, I’ll either try power matching with a newer phone (LG G6) or let TR run the Direto and overwrite the TR data with Assioma power from the Bolt–maybe adjusting FTP down to account for the difference. Or maybe let the PC control it with an ANT+ dongle to see if it matches faster. Depends on how data-geeky I want to get.