Restore Old Training Plan Functionality!

feature-request

#53

I must be missing something, but can you not just do the plan in order from the calendar?

On the calendar, they get an “x” in the corner but you can still select the workout from the calendar. You can also select a workout from the calendar from further on in the plan. You just scroll the calendar back or forward. So what functionality is lost, bar the visual change?


#54

Okay. I just started using TR to do some of the intervals. I’ve been coached by 3 different coaches, all who are high level and coach professionals as well.

I’m not understanding what your issues are here. If you are following a training plan you can’t just decide not to ride for 4 days and then pick up where you left off on the training plan and do the next workout. That by definition isn’t following the training plan. If life happens or you get sick you need to modify plans, push weeks, start with a lower power workout etc. after taking days off and then get back into the plan.

The coaches I’ve had either change some of the workouts or you just keep moving through the plan if you have a day off, you don’t just push everything forward 3 days and keep going from there.


#55

It’s people angry that their screwdriver got a more ergonomic handle and has ruined its application as a hammer. Frankly it has become exhausting.


#56

Amen


#57

More like someone giving you a nice new Philips head screwdriver when all you have is flat head screws… Oh, and then taking away your old screwdriver.

For the record I love the calender and wouldn’t go back but I can see that for some people the change is a real pain.

Mike


#58

I’m not sure that’s an applicable comparison.

The old functionality was a linear setup that had a certain type of adaptability that worked for some people. I can see the reaction to the change as the Calendar is a massive shift in functionality. True, the calendar allows an incredible amount of control and adjustability, but that is also the very thing that makes it so different and cumbersome to those who like the old setup.

I love the new one, but fully appreciate the fact that the change does not satisfy everyone. Software changes like this are common. And if the developers don’t allow some form of legacy control or similar function to established practices, it can alienate users (as we see here).

I don’t think the “they are using the software wrong” comments or suggestions that people should change their training approach are helpful at all. If they are truly missing features that is one thing, and we can try to help them learn the ways to use them.

But most of what is suggested here is that the old method was terrible and the way people want to have it again is somehow wrong. That bingo card method can and did work for many people. It is reasonable for TR to consider the need and possibility of restoring it or making some new way that functions similar to the old way. But I see not point or benefit coming from criticizing those who want the old process back in use.


#59

Agreed. I think that is far more accurate of a comparison.


#60

I’ve just looked at SSB MV1 and it sound to me like you swapped the Wed and Sun workouts around when adding your plan to the calendar.

What then appears to you as a flaw is actually one of the things most of us love about the new functionality, namely that we can automatically have shorter workouts on days we expect to have the least free time and vice-verca.

I’d recommend you delete the plan from your calendar and add it again without moving workouts around, this should then display as you are expecting. As for no workouts showing on a given day, this could be the same issue or I find, if I have a poor internet connection, it can sometimes take a while for the app to update - just give it 10-15s.


#61

I think the argument is that they were using the product in a workflow that wasn’t considered valid. They depreciated the old workflow because it wasn’t even considered as a useful thing. The plans were always given days of the week to complete them on. Envisioning it as a list of things to do in order at your convenience is an imagined anti-workflow.

Training is always done in the context of timing. The plans were always presented in the context of timing. That people were able to use it as a list of workouts was a quirk of the UI that the implementors presented.

They have stated that they are going to give ‘something’ for people that don’t want to plan their plans and just be told what to do. Considering the way that it was being used was probably doing more harm then good (oh you haven’t ridden in a week? do pettit so that you can recover from that vo2 max session 7 days ago) I can see why their motivation for ‘making it work the old way’ would be low.


#62
  • That is highly relative to each individual. As stated, many liked it.
  • And as covered in the podcast, they actively encouraged people to “juggle” those and do them on the days that fit their schedules and needs best. Coach Chad always says the plans are not “set in stone” and should be adapted to best suit the needs of each person.
  • Imagined or not, it was something that many did and were happy with for all the years that TR existed before now.
  • An incorrect assumption that is shown by comments of people with the desire to simply follow the workouts in order and complete them at whatever timing fits their life. Not everyone is using this software in the same way or for the same reasons.

#63

For you, maybe.

It has been very useful to me since 2012, over 6 years, as a paying customer. Loved it.

Not sure if you speak for the company, hopefully not?

What I really want is a formal statement from the company leadership on when or whether this regression will be fixed. I can wait some reasonable time but given the training plan feature was already implemented and working perfectly, it shouldn’t take too long to fix the regression.

If their “motivation is low” for a reasonably prompt fix, there’s no point for me to continue paying for it given the app workflow is now completely broken.

I’ve enjoyed TR for so long that I’d rather stay, but need some answers on this.

I’m working with support but getting nowhere, just a runaround. To be fair to support, I’m sure their bosses have ordered them to just regurgitate the corporate line on calendar.


#64

Great to hear from you on this. Thanks for your considered post and appreciation for our old retro way of using TR.


#65

I don’t speak for the company. No red star.

Nate has made several statements that they are working on a resolution for you. The old way was an accident that it worked that way. They can’t support every accidental workflow and do anything to the software.


#66

I’ve been OK using the new tools but I have to manage changes on my Mac.
Not my preference. I’ve introduced 2 new people to TR and they abandoned it for Zwift structured trainman in the first week.

I DO believe that the structured plans and workouts in TR are superior to many other tools.
I am about to start a Sufferfest trail for 60 days and Zwift also.

TR tech support has done their best to help me and some problems have not happened again.

I remain hopeful for a return to the time before complexity…
But I have figured it out mostly.


#67

I find the Calendar criticism confusing. I use the PC to plan my workouts for the week then use the iPad app for the actual workouts. Everything has been easy and intuitive.

I really like being able to see my scheduled workouts ahead of time and find it super easy to move workouts around to accommodate work, life, and other sports. e.g. doing a 5k Saturday so moving long weekend ride to Monday so that I can recover Sunday.


#68

This is my confusion as well. If this accurately describes the approach to training of those who hate the Calendar, then, I’m really surprised that there are this many people who would pay the monthly subscription fee in the first place.


#69

I was ok with the calendar when it launched. But was at times confused and a little frustrated. But the more I use the calendar the more I like it. I really like being able to move/rearrange workouts. I can see if someone never wants to go on the web then it would be bad. But to me the benefits far outweigh any issue of the web-based functionality


#70

@jjv I’m a little confused, because when I open the app its possible to scroll back the calendar and do any missed workout.

I live in Northern California, we had some bad fires recently and the air quality was terrible so I stopped riding for a few days. Right now I can load the app, scroll back to that week, and do any of the missed workouts. See for yourself:

Say I stopped doing all workouts from November 13th until today. To start back up with Nov 13 workout, all I do is scroll back until I see the first workout with a green check mark (Nov 12 in my example), look for the next missed workout which is Tallac on Tuesday November 13 workout, tap Tallac to load it, and then tap Load Workout to start the workout.

If your goal is to simply work down a sequential list of workouts, the scrolling is not ideal. As linked to above, Nate the CEO has stated they are working on a solution for users like yourself.


#71

If you try what you suggest you’ll see it only works once.

In your example, you can see Tallac is next. So yes, you can click and select it and do the workout.

What happens next is that a new Tallac gets inserted into your calendar on the day you did it and the original Tallac part of your workout plan remains unchecked as if you never did it.

So next time around the trick of scrolling up won’t work anymore, as the first unchecked workout is still Tallac. You’ll have to remember that you already did it and you should be doing Juneau-1. The further you go down the list the messier it gets.

Here’s a screenshot to illustrate. Yesterday (12/4) I did Tunemah by using your technique of scrolling back and selecting it from 12/1. But Tunemah didn’t get checked off, instead it added a separate Tunemah, disconnected from any training plan.

So looking at this now, how am I supposed to know what’s next? The app is actually telling me today 12/5 I should do Carter. But that’s nonsensical and wrong, because after Tunemah comes Leavitt+2. The more I work through the plan, the messier and messier this will get and it becomes impossible to know what’s next.


Fed up with TR and the calendar
#72

@jjv got it, yeah that sucks. Hold tight, hoping it gets fixed sooner rather than later.

p.s. that’s exactly how I want the calendar to work. I want to follow the actual structure of the plan, and in the future be able to go back and see what was missed. But I also understand that some people simply want an unstructured list of workouts to check off one by one.