Strength Training

@chad Do you have weight “standards” for deadlifts and pistols? Or some approximation of where the performance increase plateaus. For example, I have heard that deadlifting 1.5X BW is good goal, but going beyond that does not offer more benefits to cyclists.

Thanks

Hard days hard works well here as well. I’ve tried to mix it up on alternating days, but most of the time I end up too sore to move forward with the next day’s workout, and may skip or just tone intensity down to Pettit.

Strictly upper body work doesn’t seem to affect me on the bike so I’ll sometimes add in upper/core only on a rest day, but rarely touch the legs unless the riding happens first.

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This is really relevant for me, so thanks all. I’m in it mainly for weight loss and general fitness. I do low volume work, just finished the base phase II and am heading into Sustained Power Build, three times/week.

Because I’m in it for fitness and weight loss, I’m thinking of adding upper body and core workouts using dumbbells, in 20-30 min sessions on rest days. I read all the above, especially Chad’s comments and can see not to do extra legwork those days. But what about arm, and back/core that doesn’t impinge on cycling?

It shouldn’t, from a muscular stand point, but you’re still expending energy which you should replace.

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Hey @intheways. I don’t have strength standards when it comes to concurrent training, only when I’m focused solely on strength conditioning or solely on endurance training. I find it difficult because I’ve recognized benefits (on the bike) from max-strength lifts as well as highly metabolic workouts which are really whole-body VO2max work. Anyone who calls CrossFit a strength sport has never really done CrossFit. Sure, there’s a big strength element involved, but the best of those guys & gals have exceptional aerobic/anaerobic capacities, i.e., metabolic capabilities.

But to my point, I’ve seen certain aspects of my riding improve when I focused mostly on heavy lifts but I’ve also felt stronger, more controlled, less taxed when I was doing the high-rep, timed workouts too. So it’s been some time since I favored one type of strength training over the other, and hence, defiined any real standards to chase - other than continuous, measured improvement, e.g., more reps at the same weight, more weight, better form on technical lifts, faster times, etc.

As with so many training stressors and adaptations, it’s probably quite subjective (who’da guessed) in that any strength work that accompanies improved performance on the bike (and with concurrent training, who’s to say what really drove the improvement) is a win. Not much of a useful, go-this-direction answer, but it’s just one of those topics. :wink:

And FWIW, benefits on the bike or not, my personal goals include 100 alternating pistols (unbroken), 20 strict pull-ups, 1.5x BW bench, 2x BW squat, 2.5x BW deadlift, 20 1-arm pushups/arm, any number of one-arm pull-ups, and random other daunting and maybe never-to-be-realized, ‘fun’ goals.

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@chad Thanks for the detailed response! Those are some legit “fun” goals. I also enjoy experimenting with strength training. I am currently hunting around to find what particular lifts and rep ranges return the best bang for the buck for me. I’m not so good with periodizing strength, because I get bored too easily and like to try other things.

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My partner has gotten me signed up for Olympic Lifting, they do a solid program at the academy we will be going to with a mix of strength training and weight lifting (I’ve been told those are separate :smile: ) and will do them Tuesdays and Thursday nights and then depending on how my weekend goes work in a more functional/core type of workout on the weekend if my body is up for it.

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Apologies if I’ve missed it above but which TR workouts are designed for on the bike strength training? I have been doing lower cadence drills within [SSB Mid vol] workouts but are there any specific strength workouts? I can’t find time to do gym weight sessions! A friend of mine swears by this ‘Gear mashing’ workout (which I did quite a lot last winter - before joining TR in January) ;

15-20 ramped warmup
4 sets:
6 min - 100RPM @ Sweetspot power
6 mn - 30 rep max effort - 50/60 RPM. Repeat off 1:30 (4 repeats in 6 min)

Do you think this type of workout is a good substitute for a legs weight session? I do a core strength session once a week on a rest day, incorporating upper body weights but no lower leg specific exercises. (I’ve recently incorporated exercises from @chad 's recommendations (Renegade rows, Side planks, Spiderman press-ups) with gym ball and buso exercises).

I look forward to hearing peoples thoughts.

Anyone else suffer from a stiff neck when weight training?

Apologies if this is the wrong thread - I’m just getting back into strength training after a fifteen year hiatus. I always suffered from a stiff neck, wondering if I can avoid it this time around. Stretching never seemed to prevent it, I suspect I’m just too tense when lifting.

Does it feel worse when you do certain exercises?
Your form might not be correct for those exercises causing the stiffness in your neck muscles.

I tend to get a stiff neck when I don’t perform my shoulder exercises with the correct form.

Another reason might be the AC (if you train with it on), if it’s blasting directly in your neck it could make it worse.
If you cannot turn it off, a towel in your neck might be help as well.

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It’s not affecting me now, I’ve only just started light weights last week. I want to head it off before it happens :slight_smile:

I’m doing 1x 12 reps of:
Bar bell row or low row
Chest press
Squat or Leg press
Deadlift
Shoulder Press
Pull up or lat pull down
Power clean

Of course, sleeping on the couch isn’t going to help but I’m often in the doghouse. Such is life.

Ah yes, investing in a good couch is key forget all the other advice :wink:
It helps on recovery days as well

The shoulder press and lat pull down would be the exercises that would cause problems for me, maybe start these on a lower weight than you originally planned or possibly see a PT or masseuse to help free your neck of tensions.

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Whilst I haven’t followed this to the letter, I did implement parts of it into last years training and I’m certain that I saw positive gains.

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@chad I don’t always have time to do my hard trainer sessions in the morning and my strength sessions in the afternoon/evening. You mention that the BEST way to do these workouts is to separate them by as much as possible within the same day, but if I can’t do that, am I better off lifting right after a hard workout or not lifting at all? I tried doing my lifting workouts on my recovery days in between harder trainer sessions, but I found that it was compromising the quality of the key sessions. Main reasons for lifting are to fix some pretty significant muscular imbalances, improve sprinting/explosive power, and build a generally stronger “chassis”.

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I would hazard a guess that your form during lat pull down may be the cause. Especially if you are just starting back the tops of your shoulders are likely tight which is causing sore neck. Grab a lacrosse ball and smash that out.

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This thread seemed like a good place to add my data point to mix. I’ve used TR for the past 4-5 years, and typically do Sweet Spot Base 1 & 2 Mid-volume starting right after Thanksgiving. This year, I opted for the Low-Volume version, and added two days per week of strength training throughout the 12-week period. I also occasionally added an outdoor ride on a fat bike on Sundays.

Today was the start of the Build, and hence an FTP assessment, providing a reasonably direct comparison to where I was at the start of Build at the same time last year. This year’s ramp test yielded a 1-minute max that was 3 W higher than last year’s (when it was the Ramp Test X, and used some different math to estimate FTP). I’ll add that SSB-1 saw a larger drop in FTP this year than last, but the results at the end of SSB-2 brought me back to my old number, or slightly better.

In any case, as a first foray into adding strength training (particularly due to the discussions on the podcast), I’m very pleased. Rounded out the conditioning without any obvious cost to on-the-bike performance. At least based on this single experience.

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I can only chime in here. I started strength training last year in July and I’ve kept it going. I do the LV-builds, haven’t done SSB since I started TR mid January and my season starts in April/May and peaks in July. So I’m currently in the general build low volume. Have the following schedule:

Mondays - Rest, totally off
Tuesdays - TR, if I’m racing Sunday then I’ll re-schedule the 1,5h workout to Tuesday otherwise as standard.
Wednesdays - Strength 1h 15min
Thursdays - TR
Fridays - Strength 1h 15min
Saturdays - TR or an opener of some kind
Sundays - Long slow distance approx. 4hrs or a race at 70 mins. Yields approx. the same TSS I’ve found.

I keep my exercises to the basics of some sort.

All exercises done at 3x5reps if not stated otherwise.

  • Power cleans
  • Deadlift
  • Squats - 5x5
  • Leg curl
  • Leg cable pullups
  • Romanian deadlift
  • Barbell row
  • Box jumps 76cm 3x6
  • Crunches - 3x10
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I’d be interested to know if anyone has followed this plan:

I started but then came off the bike and didn’t get back in to it. I like the periodised approach and the emphasis on not doing too much as the focus is on how you will improve on the bike.

I think I may try and follow it through when the off season starts in a couple months.

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I’ve been slowly fixing weak glues and posterior chain, which were causing knee pain (problem solved).

Starting with hip hinging (no weights), and continuing thru deadlifting, was surprised how much I can feel my lats where they attach to rib cage.

Was reading this article https://www.strongerbyscience.com/how-to-deadlift/#The_Importance_of_the_Lats last week and found this great band exercise:

Already seems to be helping.

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Given my age - 64, I do strength training through the year. Once a week in the gym with mostly barbell exercises. Before I started Trainer Road, I was still once a week in the gym, but a longer sessions with more exercises. I have trimmed it to 3 lifts/ session to keep overall training stress within my ability to recover. Gym week one: squats, overhead press, pullups; week 2 Deadlift, bench press seated row.

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