Sufferfest New Features - TR Killer?


#41

@BadgerBeaver
Look at the “H.A. & A.C. Power Profile Test” workout. Seems what you want. Maybe you want to schedule it into your calendar.


#42

@firemunki
@buzcurtis

For just scheduling you can add a recurring other activity for this into the calendar.


#43

The utility in doing these tests is overrated I think and the TR guys have spoken multiple times about the limitations of looking solely at FTP. They are no slaves to it and the plans are a great example of the variety of riding focuses they can cater for.

The PR chart (I.e. power curve) let’s you look at your power over any given duration and is invaluable. I would argue however that a trainer isn’t the best place to test your peak 5 second power. If you race or include outdoor riding in your TR data then you have essentially done this testing in the real world and will know if you have a good 1, 3, 5min power profile.


#44

does sufferfest include the yoga workout/videos for free with the plan? that sounds tempting.


#45

Yes, when you get a membership, the yoga, strength training, and mental training videos are all included.


#46

Not sure about challenges…these could break the structured approach (which seems so important if you want to get the most benefit in making you faster)…of course challenges could add some variety or be something for users looking at more fun…but I think no matter what TR would add…in that special area other apps would still be the better choice…so maybe save that work for other things more specific to TR?

Maybe something like simple Badges could be a quick win…just a simple Badge for each completed plan and an overview of all completed plans with scores for FTP gain and completion rate…but again…I would tend to focus functionality.


#47

All this speaks to TR developing a two tier training platform. Create a ‘Performance’ level for those who want strictly no-frills racing/‘get faster’ type training plans, and keep the current platform for the recreational fitness seeker user who requires all the bell, whistles, and rewards for motivation and engagement.


#48

Colour coded intervals and customizable screens would turn me OFF Trainerroad. Keep It Simple for me so I can focus on watts.


#49

This exactly! There is an obvious difference between these two groups both on the trainer and riding outdoors. You can’t simultaneously make both of them completely happy.


#50

Very similar experience. I bought some Sufferfest videos to use within TrainerRoad before they had their own app. I watched the DCRainmaker video of the new features coming and it was hard to deny that it doesn’t offer features I would love to see in TrainerRoad. HOWEVER, my experience of the Sufferfest videos burnt me - I can’t stand their (in my opinion) childish comments that pepper the videos and have you ever tried listening to their podcast?? It’s like the polar opposite to TrainerRoad and for those reasons I’ve never wanted to switch to Sufferfest. Strength training, Yoga and ability to turn down specific levels of a workouts are a massive plus for me though.


#51

And if you try and make both happy you’ll make both unhappy. Let the people that need to be cajoled into training to go to zwift. Keep focusing on making the training better.


#52

We can adjust intensity but not duration of the interval or the rest between the

Given how often they talk about not wanting to diverge from their core mission (making you a faster cyclist) I don’t see them moving in this direction.

It very well could be a great thing for them, but I think they are much more interested in the data they have and how they can use it to make the training plans more effective for each individual


#53

I’ve seen this suggestion. I just hope that this doesn’t mean pricing people out of racing even more and degrading the race preparation value of the lower tier. One of the huge benefits of TR right now is that people can do structured training who might not be able to afford a coach.


#54

It wouldn’t. The current form of TR – the one that ALL of us now use – would be kept the same (with the addition of motivational bling)…the plans, the price, etc. wouldn’t change. A different ‘Performance’ tier would include more specialized and personalized training workouts and plans but at an increased cost and without all the engagement trophies, just straight up hardcore training. This business model is used everywhere by successful companies so it’s not a losing proposition, i.e. TR can still deliver on their core mission in both platforms.

I can’t see this near-future as it would have to be built by some kind of AI/ML base using TRs Big Data. Perhaps >5 years down the road when they get a good deep dive into their info and customer metrics.


#55

Not sure if you saw the latest, but my calendar shows the TSS for that individual activity as well as the overall week highlighted in orange in the below screenshot.


#56

I could watch her do Yoga for hours. :slight_smile:


#57

Funny. Looking at Ray Maker’s discussion of SF’s changes, he leads with “disabling workout videos,” which, based on the screen shots make SF a lot like TrainerRoad. (The videos, the music selection, the fact that the workout seemed to be mostly about hammering yourself into the ground, and several other things about the platform turned me off on it when I was looking at training platforms in late 2017.) Looking at the rest of Ray’s discussion, I see:

  • Metrics I won’t be able to focus on during a hard workout that don’t seem very useful for easier workouts. (Cadence is about all I can focus on during anything hard.)
  • Another iteration of power testing and related data that I can easily find by looking at my PRs.
  • Color coding for what power duration a specific interval is supposed to improve. Only, I keep hearing people saying and seeing evidence in my own training that intervals improve more than just the specific duration they’re training.
  • No Android app (deal killer for me) and no plans for one (killed, 50 stakes through the heart, beheaded, stuffed with garlic, burned, ashes scattered over four continents).
  • Did yoga classes for a while a few years ago, know the basics, don’t need videos to string together a basic workout, but I’d rather just pull a few of the moves that fit well with post ride stretches and simple body weight strength training.
  • Which probably tells you where I am on strength training.
  • I get my mental training from McAdie +1, VO2Max workouts, and the like. Whiteside +2 with 20 minutes of extended cool down was a mental challenge too, and came with quite a sense of accomplishment.

I get that some people don’t know yoga, can’t look up basic strength training plans on sites like ACE Fitness, like paying for flashy videos and loud music of someone else’s choosing, etc.,. That’s fine. YMMV. To me, SF is more filler than meat.

I’m not seeing much about analytics or a calendar either, both of which quickly became important features when TR introduced them.

Meanwhile, see paragraph 6, “SufferFest was a prime example of that, …” for a hint of where some of the ideas that are improving the SF UI, no video workouts, etc., may be coming from.


#58

Tried to catch up on this thread as much as possible so apologize if this has already been mentioned:

The only thing I miss about Sufferfest are mixed interval sessions. As in, I would love for most of my non-endurance interval sessions to be mixed. No reason you can’t work on VO2max type intervals and sweet spot (for example) in the same session. Currently I have to do this by piecing together workouts like Legos.

I asked about it here: Mixed Interval Sessions/Workouts

Not really a thing TR folks get in to I guess, which is a shame because it’s actually a lot like riding a bike, an activity I think most would enjoy :wink::hugs::wink:

As others have mentioned I’ve never been too keen on the SF brand of humor/motivation. I’m not 14 years old anymore.


#59

I could LISTEN to her do yoga for seconds. :confounded::hear_no_evil:


#60

I don’t know how common these workouts are, but my current plan had me doing a mixed session yesterday - Winchell +1. They definitely exist and are included in the plans - although you are correct that the majority of the workouts are focused on a single type of interval