Sweet Spot Base or Traditional Base after long break?

i think i wll do 1-2 weeks easy workouts, get to know TR and do the FTP test (i actually dont wanna know how far it dropped​:see_no_evil::see_no_evil:).
Then i will start with the Sweet spot Base (probably low, because i will also commute 2x20min a day)

Thanks so much for your help!

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think your right about these habbits. I think it will be hard in the beginning, but im looking forward to the challenge, especially after such a long time without being on the saddle…

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sounds like the way i will do it! Thx!

Man, the structured workout thing is really a big deal. I love waking up and checking my calendar to see what I’m doing that day workout wise. I sit Sunday night and look at the week against my training calendar to see what conflicts there might be. I’ve used a coach before, been a member of a team where I had training rides prescribed, but somehow this is different. TRs training plans are solid, and I can backward play from my hard times (A Races, or big rides if you will) to ensure I’m going to get the right effect in advance. The podcast is CLUTCH in explaining the methodology behind the programs, and combined together, they have produced what is for me at least the best setup out there.

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do you have tips for the recovey n nurtiltion part of it? Whats yoursetup?
Any tips?
My usual prolem
Is that im very skinny, and i loose even more when a train. I want to get stronger at the same time or stay af least same…
Im 173cm, 64kg, good trained (was a basketballplayer and surfer)

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If you feel more comfortable doing this then by all means go for it, but honestly it’s unnecessary and you would be fine just jumping straight into a plan and going for it. Your test result isn’t a punishment, it’s just a reflection of where your fitness is right now. You’ll get your old fitness back in pretty short order.

I would recommend coming back to training to select the Low Volume plan initially. That’s 3 rides per week of about 1 hour each. So, the rides when you’re in them feel challenging, but in reality isn’t a huge training load. You’ll have rest days after all your rides so recovery will take care of itself. As for nutrition I would point you to this thread Nutrition books. Lots of good resources in there, but you can’t really go wrong with Matt Fitzgeralds book.

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Placeholder (for a better reply, but since I’m part way through a ride, I’m just going to take a second and say I agree with @julianoliver Jump into the SSB LV plan. With the calendar setup the way it is, if you don’t like it, you can just delete it. I’;ll bet you’ll love it though…

+1 for the Matt Fitzgerald books too, I’ve got Racing Weight laying here right next to my laptop as I type this. I also have some specific thoughts on nutrition I’ll add in a. bit, which is why I place held this…

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I actually prefer Racing Weight to the Endurance Diet, but I’m more on the end of trying to really dial in my nutrition and weight. For someone that’s just coming back to training (or starting) I think the Endurance Diet offers good info on getting the basics right. Fuel your workouts properly, eat variety and make sure you’re getting enough carbs.

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Again you guys are a huge help! :pray:

I just bought the book the endurance diet and i go from there.
I also agree, recovery (and) also nutrition) will bi less important as my trainingload will still be small… but i really want to focus on not loosing weight, or even gaining 1-2pounds of muscle…

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Diet really plays the dominant role when it comes to body composition. The commonly held believe is that if exercise starts or increases, then weight will just fall off. Gyms are littered with new members in January trying to shed excess weight. Exercise doesn’t hurt, but the return on investment compared to eating less is terrible. For a beginner athlete, a 1 hour workout in TR is around 300 calories. A banana is around half that. If you’re worried about losing weight, you need to eat more. Here is a more thorough post on nutrition and weight management. Most people are focussed on losing weight, not gaining it, but the principles are the same.

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Someone has probably already asked but I’m about to kick off training after well life getting in the way. I am leaning towards doing traditional base instead of sweetspot. Basically because sweetspot intervals suck (more reason to do them I know. Any advice? I do a mix of road, gravel and XC riding, nothing fast just trying to build my fitness back up. Any advice or articles of benefits to either?

Thanks in advance!!!

How much time can you dedicate to your training?

At a very high level - unless you can commit to high volume traditional base you’re probably better off picking one of the sweet spot base plans

Do traditional base. It’s always a good place to start and even more so if you are struggling with motivation of sweet spot/intensity. Do the plan that keeps you motivated the longest. If you have been off for a bit, any plan will lead to gains for you, so go with the one that will stick.

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Conventional wisdom is that you need 12-20 hours/week for traditional base to really work its magic. Sweet spot will give you some (not all) of those gains in less time. Depending on how your body responds, doing 7-10 hours of traditional base MIGHT be about the same as 4-7 hours of sweet spot. Just speculating, the art of training is figuring out what works for you…

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I can offer you advice as someone in exactly your position. I’ve just come off 2 1/2 years of virtually no excercise, I dusted off my bike when the sun came out, did a couple of rides and felt very out of shape. So, I got a Kickr Snap and got to work with Sweet Spot Base Mid Volume.

Sweet Spot intervals are hard :smiley: But, they do you good. I’m 3 weeks in, and each session (except for the mid week recovery ones) has stretched me. But, I’ve made every one so far and now I’ve got half way through part 1 the motivation not to quit is gathering serious momentum.

I’ve already lost about 2Kg (no dieting, but I am more careful with wine and beer these days), I have no real idea of FTP gains yet, and I’m in no rush to do another ramp test, but the fact that I’m hitting every interval as they get harder is somewhat heartening.

If you did a low or mid volume Traditional Base you’d find it easier but you would also find it slower to make fitness gains. To be honest I’d get bored doing long easy intervals indoors and I’d get frustrated with slower progress. I’d rather do hard work in the time available and see bigger gains. If you have time to do 10 hours or more then Traditional could work, but 10 hours a week on a turbo isn’t something I could cope with.

My advice, go for Sweetspot first, put other ideas out of your head. Aim to get 3 weeks in before re-assessing. By then you’re half way and you couldn’t quit then, could you?

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Your speculation fits pretty well with my N=1 if it helps! Up to about 8-9 hours/week I do well on a diet of mostly SS, once I get beyond that I need to start swapping SS sessions for longer (usually outdoor) endurance and lower end tempo sessions. I find I end up with similar FTP on 8-9 weeks of SS as I do on 12-15 hour weeks which are about half SS and half traditional base. But the 12-15 hour approach is more enjoyable (I love long outdoor rides when I have the time), less risky in terms of overdoing it, and sets me up better in ways beyond just the FTP measure. E.g. I find it easier to trim weight with more volume at lower intensity, I think it also lays a good foundation for doing some big block weeks later in the season.

Unfortunately I don’t always have the luxury of being able to fit in 12-15 hour weeks, let alone the 20+ hours I suspect I would need to drop the SS work altogether!

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Agree, this is what I’ve always been told, read and learned about. However, my n=1 experience is different. I came off of my XCO season in 2018, granted after recovering from an injury, with a 260 FTP to begin Traditional Base MV 1 (Oct 23, 2018). As expected my FTP went down, 250 (Nov 20, 2018) when I started Traditional Base MV 2. Then it started to climb back up, reaching 265 (Dec 18, 2018) beginning Traditional Base MV 3. At the end of Traditional Base 3 my FTP was 287 (Jan 15, 2019). So, I put some decent gains on my FTP reaching an all time high, though I’m not sure what exactly my FTP was at the end of Specialty since I didn’t’ test before my last race in 2018.

This is what I think is so important. As I described above at the end of my XCO season and Specialty, I was so sick of high intensity and intervals. I was waiting for things to calm down because I dreaded pushing hard again. I was unmotivated to train anything that resembled what I had been doing and Traditional Base was a great fit. I recommend Traditional Base MV to get you back into it. Then when your’re craving a little more intensity move over to Sweet Spot Base.

I will say that by the end of Traditional Base MV 3 I was so sick of long slow boring rides that I was anxiously waiting for intensity by then!

which is exactly my point… you can achieve gains on TR mid-volume traditional base, and the specific results will depend on a lot of variables. Wonder how much further you could have moved the needle on 12-20 hours/week? Questions without answers :wink:

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@Mikeferguson1980 The 4 key components I’d recommend (that worked for me):

  • SSB MV
  • Long Ride
  • Strength training
  • Flexibility/mobility training

Sweet Spot Training: Of all types of training, sweet spot training is the best bang for your buck. You asked about “articles”. I suggest reading the relevant sections that discuss this topic in:

  • Joe Friel’s - The Cyclist’s Training Bible
  • Allen/Coggan/McGregor - Training + Racing with a Power Meter

Plenty of quality info there to better understand.

SSB MV is a great program for this. FWIW: The adjustment that I needed to make was to make all sessions either 1.25, 1.5 or 2x the length as I came into TR a year ago with a CTL in the 90s and didn’t want to detrain/loose fitness doing it.

Long Ride: Long rides have 3 important benefits:

  • Training your body to burn fat as a fuel source
  • Dialing in you nutrition
  • Building mental toughness (to sit on your butt for several hours)

For me, they range for 4-8+ hours, but your time will be dependent on your goals and fitness level.

Note to above: As Joe Friel emphasizes several times in “Fast after 50” it is important (regardless of your age) that your training include both - intervals and long/endurance rides.

Strength Training: It’s hard to underestimate the value of strength training on cycling, including lower body, upper body and core strength. Serious strength training takes a toll on your body as do bike rides, and consequently its TSS toll needs to be accounted for in order to properly recover. FWIW: I use TP Premium, including its calendar and PMC chart to plan out all of my rides and strength workouts to make sure I achieve proper recovery.

Flexibility/Mobility: This is particularly critical as we age. For example, the ability to stay comfortably in the drops and deliver power for an extended period of time comes from the core and flexibility training.

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