Thanks Joe!
I think I’ll do the Half Distance Low volume plan to keep the TSS similar.
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So this isn’t really IM specific but perhaps part of it is, because of illness gaps In going to move a few missed weeks up before I start build.
My current week is week 11, TSS 642, the last week will be wk12 533 TSS. I have a gap of two weeks I can fill, I’m thinking week 10, 658 TSS then week 8, 672 TSS.
This gives me a progression of 642-658-672-533
Or I could just repeat weeks 10,11 to get to 12…which probably makes more sense training wise.
That’ll be 642-658-642-533.
Thoughts?
Which plans are you following? Is the TSS solely bike or total?
I’d generally agree with your thoughts about repeating the 10-11-12 rather than mixing and matching weeks. “All TSS is not equal” and all that - the logical workout progressions in consecutive weeks trumps the singular TSS value IMO.
Another option would be to continue with the build and still have a few weeks wiggle room over then next few months although I appreciate you may feel you don’t want to do that.
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Base Mid Full. Combined - might not be the best way to evaluate it now you mention it.
I’ve looked ahead to my “race”* date, it’s not going to make much sense to allow further slippage as I want to start build such that I can slip a week on half term and come back to a recovery week.
*Projecting to Lanza which I haven’t entered yet.
I’d stick to 10-11-12 to get the advantage of the progression.
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Well just got my power profile downloaded from BBS for my best guess at Savageman 70 course in September. Hopefully by then it’ll be a .79 IF ~ 3 hours on the bike. That might be still a bit too much for jumping up in distance, but I’ve got a lot of time to figure it out, and 10 years of miles in my legs…
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Thanks, Copying weeks is still a bit unintuitive on the iPhone but I’ve done that
Next question…I’m doing the thing everyone says not to do: a marathon in Ironman training, Brighton Marathon 
That is in week #2 of the spec mid full plan. So week #3 and #4 will be interesting; hardly any running but what of the bike? Turn down the intensity or change the sessions entirely?
Don’t do that! 
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It’s a tough one to judge until you see how you recover. Have you run a marathon before to have an idea as to how you might recover?
The other thing is how hard you are going to run the marathon. If you are looking to run the race as fast as you can then, in my experience, they are brutal. I’ve run 3 open marathons for time before and they taken me longer to recover from than any of the IM’s I’ve done and is the reason my last one was in 2013!! A fast marathon is grim experience! There can be a big difference though between going for the absolute fastest time you are capable of and holding back just a few percent for a time which might still be a PB and a race you’re happy with.
All of that will affect what you’re able to to in the following weeks. At the very least I’d rearrange the order of the following week if you can. Make Whorl the first session back and judge it from there. If you’ve still got time to play with it could be worth using the recovery weeks rides and then getting back to regular training.
It might also be worth trying to run in the days after the marathon. One recovery strategy that has worked for me after running races has been to run (or hobble ungracefully) for as little as 10-15 minutes each day regardless of how bad it feels just to keep the muscles from completely freezing up over the following days.
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What could go wrong? 
No, not really. 
I have an erm, interesting history of marathons but no I’ve never entered a marathon before.
While I was a heavy drinking city worker (PB having once broken fifteen minutes on a treadmill at 11kph) my mum phoned me up once the week before the London Marathon and said she was doing it with a team from her church but someone had dropped out…it was for charity, could I fill the space? And you have to dress as a Thunderbird. And collect money from the pubs as you go…and you’ll be pushing an old lady in a wheel chair for half of it.
You can imagine how that went. I crawled up the stairs to my apartment that night, not even a medal to show for it because the priest who organised it thought it was fine to just photocopy a number from the previous year and hand it out to all of our people. 
I had serious trouble walking for days! 
Then there was my first Ironman, my frankenbike hobbled me. Plus dehydration.
Second Ironman run was worse. Although I had sorted my bike and position dehydration hit much earlier during the bike and I never got running, it was the infamous death march for me.
So no real guidance from history, just thought it might entertain you all to read it 
So…Why am I doing it at all? As per the above I dont really know what I’m capable of running, so that my focus this season and hence the 10K PB back in November.
Theoretically, the marathon calculators say I can train for a sub 4 marathon. The smart move I think would be a run/walk for a 4:30 target, and absolutely do not turn up the volume for the finish line.
It’s not setting the world alight, but I think it would show me that I could go sub 4. Have some relevance to IM training. And show me what running an IM run could be like in future.
On the other hand it could go like the November 10k and when the lights go off I just burn it up.
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I’m really bad at taking a race as an easy training session. I do one each year, a local HM in February which a friend and I always use as an excuse to catch up for a chat, run at a comfortable pace and see how many runners we overtake in the second half who have started too quickly just by maintaining the same pace.
It’s always good to remind me at the start the year how proper pacing works!
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Well, you could kill your Ironman. Do you know the concept of “self fulfilling prophecy”?
You already had some weeks of illness. If you run a marathon just before Lanzarote (and are not super experienced with marathons), this will force you in so much recovery time, that you will loose even more weeks of Ironman training.
As I mentioned above: You started this thread. I will not let you of the Ironman-hook! Sign up for Lanzarote! And forget that Marathon! 
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Of course you’re doing a marathon I have nothing useful to say since I’ve never run anything above HM distance and haven’t signed up for an IM yet because a marathon seems like such a long way to go!
I think Julian had some good advice - listen to him 
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I would like to learn more…
Okay, so now everyone is on board with the idea (!) Speciality has >4hr trainer rides every weekend, and alternates weekends with 2h50-3h long runs. Week 4 allows for a half Ironman.
If Speciality is a reasonable plan then it might not be ideal, but it could work. Swims will not change but use pull buoy after week 2.
Week 1
Runs; no faster than mara pace, long run cut back from 2h50 to 1h45,
Bike; no change but move Kailesh to start of week
Marathon week
Week 2
Runs all cut back to RPE 2-4, max 35mins. Race at mara pace, 9/1 run/walk.
Bike: Longfellow moved to beginning of week.
Post mara
Week 3:
Runs - none except a short say 20min recovery run the following weekend.
Bike: Whorl moved to beginning, drop Frissell +2, turn down intensity on Polar Bear and Mianzimu (5hrs!) at weekend.
Week 4:
Runs - cut back to recovery runs, progressing from 30-45 mins through the week.
Bike as normal.
Week 5:
Run back to normal but 3hr long run cut to a walk/run 2h15.
Week 6/7:
Back to plan, which is tapering anyway.
Week 8: Win AG.
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Given the timescale available I reckon that looks pretty sensible. Just prepare to be adaptable if you feel the need to change anything else around and know that the easier you that the run the more likely the Week 8 plan will happen
I’d still recommend a bit of time on your feet the week after the marathon, if not very short runs then a few brisk walks. That should help rather than hinder recovery.
Anybody doing IM Switzerland? Anybody done it in the past? Looking for specifics on the bike route. Thanks
I have a question that I think might be relevant to this thread, or at least, I hope so…
I’m in week 11 of the Full Distance Base training plan and it is going well. In fact, I’m really happy with the progress… it’s my first go at structured cycling training (2nd season of triathlon). The only thing is the long rides on the bike.
I have stuck to them so far, but I made the mistake of looking ahead to the build plan where there seems to be a 4 hour plus ride. I’m not sure I can handle that inside every week.
So my question is… if I go outside, is there an adjustment to ride duration or intensity to ensure I get the equivalent workout?
I heard the guys talking on a recent podcast about how a 4 hour ride inside is the equivalent to a 6 hour ride outside (those figures might not be right, but I think that was the point), due to coasting, stopping for traffic etc. Should I therefore be going longer outside then the plan’s long ride?
OK, that was more like questions 
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I really feel with you. My plan is to do the long ones outdoors, too.
I suppose it should be ok, if I stick to the prescrived TSS and the Watt-range. Then I‘ll stay as long on the bike until I‘ll reach the target TSS.
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