To PowerMatch or not to PowerMatch?

That has the looks of two apps being connected to the trainer, and they fight over the resistance.

Are you absolutely certain you had one and only one app connected?

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The only other thing would be my Garmin, reporting out the values. Could this be the issue?

I did restart my tablet to ensure the tacx sw was not still running, but perhaps, somehow, it is did this in the background.

I’ll give it a try. @mcneese.chad do you have any examples of that by any chance?

I have had it on a few workouts over the years, when I had Zwift and TR paired to the trainer. Not sure I can find a specific one to show, because I usually catch it around 1-2 minutes in and realize the issue. I stop pedaling, kill or unpair the offending / unwanted app and return to regular function.

But the constant, and relatively repeated up/down pattern above sure looks like what I have experienced with dueling apps.

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fantastic to know, thank you for the swift response. Will give it a try out when i next have a workout.

Nicely done it that I have rest week this week :wink:

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I think Chad Mcneese has you covered, but if that doesn’t fix it please reach out to support@trainerroad.com. This is clearly a bug/issue that needs to be addressed.

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Quick update. Today’s workout albeit being a constant power recovery session worked really well. I uninstalled the Tacx app(s) on my tablet, connected the trainer using BT, powermeter with ANT+, and it worked nicely. The spikes below are either me tightening my shoes or some random form sprints.

Will also report back based on a stronger variant intensity session. One thing that irked me before was that a SS block followed by a recovery interval resulted in sometimes it taking really forever for the power to level off back to the low intensity. Will check this out.

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Hey @trpnhntr

Would you mind to expand a bit on why it’s better to PowerMatch?

I stopped using it because I have the same issues that other fellows describe below including much higher fluctuations, significantly more lag time between changes in resistance, a weird feeling whenever I have to backpedal (it feels almost impossible to get back with the interval because somehow, the change in the intensity when it gets turned back on it’s way too hard), the resting intervals do not seem to be easy enough (something about the resistance that just does not feel as easy as resting intervals feel using the Trainer Power Meter), and what it’s worse, I cannot seem to connect all devices at once (headphones, Quarq, Trainer, TR App) which means I have to give up the headphones and workout without music!!!

Those reasons made a strong case for me to stick to using just the built-in Power Meter from my BKOOL PRO 2.

However, the power reading from the Trainer is very different than the one from the Quarq Power Meter. Last Ramp Test I recorded it with the Trainer Road app connected to the Trainer Power Meter and also recorded it with the Garmin Computer connected to the Quarq Power Meter.

The Trainer suggested an FTP of 328.
Quarq suggested 288. Huge difference…
So I’m afraid that the rides I do outside with Quarq might not be in the correct training zones given this difference, and this is why I am trying to determine if I should go through the “hassle” of using PowerMatch…? What do you think?

Yes, please. This used to happen to me, too and it’s one of the reasons I stopped using PowerMatch. Let me know how it’s going for you now…

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@bat356
Did you ever figure this out? I am having the same issue with the same type of trainer…

At a very high level it is better to use power match so you have consistency of measuring device indoors and outdoors. Any two power meters (whether a trainer or a direct force power meter) will have discrepancies at various points in their power curve. Having the same measuring device consistently indoors and outdoors is a large benefit.

That isn’t to say everyone should be using power match, just that it is worth using if possible (i.e. you can resolve the various issues that can present using power match).

Is this different when you don’t use power match? It feels like this is a trainer issue more than a power match issue. I’d suggest you try both methods and make sure you carefully measure the amount of time you aren’t pedaling - trainers can take some time to set power to 0 and it might just be a difference in scenario that is unrelated to power match

Are you using the same FTP setting in both scenarios? It strikes me that the differences in power might be dramatic, so you aren’t actually working in the same zones when you use power match vs when you don’t use power match. This can lead to recoveries and/or intervals being too difficult. For instance - the two measuring devices might align perfectly at 300 watts but be vastly different at 150 watts - thus your intervals could feel ok and recoveries feel brutally hard.

To truly compare you’d need to have the FTP with power match (measured from your quarq) and then your FTP without power match (measured from the BKOOL)

Could you share a link to a ride done with power match and one done without power match?

Here’s a picture of my ride from yesterday done using power match for reference

That is a 3 minute interval with a jump and subsequent drop between 144 watts and 407 watts

Will do for sure.

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Hey @trpnhntr

Thanks for taking the time to look into this to help me. I really appreciate that! Let’s see…

I generally love consistency but in this case, I only ride outside for races and every now and then for long easy rides where I’m pacing by feel and not with power (to get a mind rest…). Therefore, if this is the biggest reason to use PowerMatch then I might not see it as being that critical for my specific case…

Oh yes, definitely yes. This never happens when using the trainer alone, only happens with PowerMatch…

Yes and no. I did one FTP Ramp Test but I didn’t use PowerMatch. In one hand I connected quarq with Garmin and on the other I connected the TR App to the trainer. I hit start and stop in the Garmin as well as in the TR App at the same time and so I ended up with two workout files. One where TR calculated my FTP to be 328 and another file from Garmin which I exported and sent to the TR customer support for them to look at and calculate what my quarq FTP would be, turning out to be 288. I explained the situation to the customer support and they said I shouldn’t worry too much because in the end, FTP is usually higher outside due to ventilation and other factors which made sense to me because prior to using TR, at a point where I was pretty fit (just a but less fit than where I’m at today) I took a 20 min test outside and my FTP was 320 which is pretty close to my last indoor FTP (the one I did with both the Garmin and the TR App).

Sure. I recall a recovery week when I used PowerMatch and I felt I didn’t recover at all!!! In fact, that’s when I pulled the plug and quit using PowerMatch…

Sure. In fact, let me share two screenshots, same workout, different day. One day using PowerMatch and another day using just the trainer on Erg mode:


Take a look at the fluctuations and how the recovery intervals were not that easy when using PowerMatch.

All in all, I’ll revert back to my first question:
How critically important is using PowerMatch vs just the trainer? Especially for a guy like me who rarely rides outisde and when I do it’s always a long easy ride or a race (never a structured workout, those only happen indoors).

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I’ve started using Powermatch recently. It’s not ideal, but because my Wahoo Kickr reads 40 watts high, I have to. I’ve check my Kickr against my quatrq and 4iiii and it reads 35-40 watts high on both. I was using my FTP from outside on my Kickr, which meant for 2 months I have been training at the wrong intensity! AHHH. I much prefer using the Kickr on ERG as the power is much smoother and much more enjoyable. but the readings just arent accurate. I can’t seem to get the offset to work either. which is a shame.

If you mainly train Indoors, do your FTP indoors, or have seperate outdoor and indoor FTP’s. I would no powermatch, but if you are relying on accurate outdoor and indoor power, Powermatch is going to be more consistent.

I tend to disagree - primarily for tracking TSS over time. Even when I’m out on a long endurance ride (and deliberately avoiding looking at my power) it is helpful to have an accurate and consistent measure of TSS to better understand how your body responds to stress over time. In the short term this is not valuable, but looking at your data from the past (think 6, 12, or 24 months ago) it is extremely helpful to have a consistent measure of rides you will have long since forgotten

To me the difference in the recovery valleys looks like a trainer issue, not a power match issue. Were you using the same gear for both rides? My assumption is that for one of them (which happened to be the power match ride) you were using a gear where your trainer was struggling with a power floor issue. That’s not to say it isn’t power match - but it really looks like a power floor problem more than a power match problem given the consistency of power readings when at higher power values

I also spend more time indoors than outdoors. As I detailed above there is value there, and understanding where an effort falls on this scale can help you. It isn’t necessary by any stretch but I do think it is worth using if you can resolve the issues

Thank You @noahphence

Thanks @trpnhntr

You have a good point regarding TSS.

It now makes more sense to get those issues fixed. I will give some thought as to how to go about listing all of them, testing, and using the Customer Support team to address them.

Thanks again for following up till I finally got it.

Cheers,

Daniel Lalinde

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Sorry if this was covered already but… have you tried just shifting down during the recoveries? I’ve noticed when using Powermatch that my trainer won’t go below certain power levels based on the gearing, and I have to shift down to meet the target. It will increase power to the interval target just fine in the same gear; it just can’t get down to the recovery target.

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Hey @eric1a2krueger

Thanks for jumping in! Is that right!?!
I thought PowerMatch was just like Erg mode, meaning that regardless of your gear, it’s meant to apply the necessary resistance to match the target power. Ha! I will give that a try. It’d be great if this solves this part of the puzzle.

It is… but I have noticed through trial and error there are some gearing limits to it, only on the low end seemingly. Once I figured that out, riding in Powermatch became my preferred mode.

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Nice tips. I am going to have to give power match another try.