Training Stress


#1

Great job on the calendar, I’ve waiting for a way to integrate all workouts into a single calendar and track TSS. I have a couple of additional features I hope you’d consider. 1) Would you consider adding CTL - Fitness, ATL - Fatigue and TSB - Form calculations to the calendar? These are invaluable calculations and allows me to track these numbers as I plan my TSS and prepare for key races. 2) When completing non-cycling events in your plan (e.g. cardio, strength training, core etc.), provide an option to add HR to calculate hrTSS. Without knowing your calculations for your Intensity Estimates and trying to figure out which is more reflective of my actual workout, I’d rather just add my HR for the workout and it calculates my TSS. 3) Any plans to partner with Apple and create an API to sync workouts?


#2
  1. we do show CTL, it’s the 6 week daily average line. We think we can do a better job than Atl/tsb for peaking…plus that’s such a hard thing for people to understand. We’d rather just tell you how to peak.

  2. we don’t have plans to add HR to TSS calcs. We think it’s worse than just estimating RPE.

  3. yes, someday. There are more core features we want to build first.


#3

Is there a way when reviewing the performance chart to see hr decoupling? Even if you named it something different to make it simpler to understand. Like a rating of how well you’ve adapted to aerobic power demands. Would be very useful for those that are training for longer events like triathlon or road races where aerobic endurance is vital to success. You could rate decoupling and signal that base is completed and that the athlete is ready to enter build phase, or should alter build phase to still include AeT workouts or consider revisiting base phase.

Sorry for the long comment, was a simple thought that somehow grew as I typed. Apologies.


#4

I agree aerobic decoupling can be a very useful measure of fitness and pacing, especially on long climbs. Would be a great addition to TR, development time permitting. Been looking for a PW:HR calculator of some kind but can’t seem to find anything. These days, for pacing, I refer to variability index in Stravistix. V.I. would also be great in TR.


#5

I’ve been comparing the TrainingPeak’s hrTSS with TrainerRoad’s RPE, and find they correlate quite well. I don’t have a power meter on my MTB, only my road bike, and I also do the occasional run. I find myself still checking back on TrainingPeak’s weekly snapshot because it gives me the whole TSS picture for the week across all my activities, whereas TrainerRoad by design just gives me TSS for power meter recorded activities. Yes, I can add the RPE to TrainerRoad but I feel this is very subjective and requires some experience to get it right. Anyhow, my current workflow is to go to TrainingPeaks and note the hrTSS score and then add that to TrainerRoad manually so I have consistency across platforms.
What I’m getting at is would it be an idea to sync the hrTSS from TrainingPeaks for activities without power meter data? This would cover runs as well as they have rTSS for that.
@nate you said you think HR TSS is worse than RPE? I would love an explanation if you have time. :sweat_smile:


#6

Short answer: I can do the same power output and percent of FTP and have HR that is 20 bpm different depending on stress, hydration, time of day, freshness and training load.


#7

HR on the bike is far more inconsistent due to the cooling effect, however on the run it is pretty consistent. Those weather conditions that give us a lower HR for the same effort also allow us to PR races more often in fall and spring. I would imagine that really hot conditions will end up lowering your FTP due to the body’s extra effort to spend bloodflow resources on evaporative cooling. But those really cool days it is really hard to get my HR to respond on the bike.


#8

I can show you TR workouts where my FTP is the same but my HR is drastically different based on where I am in my training phase. The more chronically tired I am the lower my HR is.


#9

Ok fair enough I can agree with that. On the other hand, I can go out and ride with my power meter at 250 watts on one day and it feels relatively easy and the next day, doing 250 watts feels like I’m going to die. If I don’t have a power meter to compare, I’d give the bad day a way higher RPE score than it deserves. Alternatively, my HR could perhaps be the more objective metric rather than my subjective perception, or at least give me an indication of the way my body is responding to the effort? :thinking:
I admit, this is probably a controversial topic. :zipper_mouth_face:


#10

Nate, I am new to TR but have been an avid user of TP Online and WK04 and depend on them for analysis and planning. TR is great and Calendar seems promising, but falls far short thus far of what would be needed to replace the key features of these products. Have you developed a strategy (although I presume it is evolving) for where you will be taking the data segment of your business? Other than the numerous tactical feature requests your receive do you have a “forum” for having users provide input (e.g. strategy sessions)?


#11

Yes, our strategy is to “give people what they need and nothing that they don’t”.

We feel there are a lot of vanity metrics or “gee that’s interesting” metrics in cycling that muddy up the waters. In general, we want to take the data and turn it into information and action for our users automatically.

For example, we don’t view that left/right balance is a useful cycling metric in almost all cases. There might be a case for coming back from serious leg injury. I know that’s a controversial statement but we can’t figure out how left/right balance will make you faster, or if even having a left/right discrepancy is a good or bad thing based on the available data.

The forum is a perfect place to have a discussion, but I also do ad-hoc user discussions when I travel and meet users.


#12

@nate great point. Also position can have a huge impact. This time of year getting on tt Bike in aero bars can cause my hr to jump 10-20 bpm for the same test on my road bike.


#13

I’d also like the option of it automatically adding hrTSS. I get that you guys don’t rate it, and understand the limitations. However, I’d prefer the (option of) automatic estimate, even if you put a big caveat on it when giving the option.

To be honest, I adjust the RPE in non power meter rides to get as close a match as the hrTSS Training Peaks gives me anyway - it may as well be automatic!

Coming into an unstructured phase and winter (with more MTB), more of my rides won’t have power. It’s already proving a bit of a chore to update. To the degree I’m considering pseudo power meters like the powercal or powerpod just because I am actually that lazy :slight_smile:


#14

Love my PowerPod! :blush:. Pretty accurate/consistent according to DC Rainmaker. Price was right, too!


#15

So as a point for discussion, when adding estimated rpe it does not match what a calculated tss should be, at least for running. An rpe of ten is as fast as you can go, while 1 hour pace is closer to a seven or 8. Endurance pace on the run is roughly .85 IF, possibly higher if using training peaks formula. My actual tss for my runs are about 20 points higher than the estimates based on rpe.


#16

It can be helpful in some situations but has it limits especially on the trainer. Sometimes heart rate and power decouple not because of fitness but dehydration, inability to cool off, or both.


#17

It’s only a small piece of the puzzle, I realize, and may not be as important as TSS or CTL, I just always found it a useful reference point for how I performed on a given day and if i did, in fact, hydrate properly, and how to build good training habits going forward. Thanks!


#18

I second this. ATL and TSB is something most who are on other platforms are used to. Would be nice to have it consolidated here.


#19

My 2 cents on leg balance:
I have an L/R balance of 52/48 (and even a bit more lefty in longer rides, when I fatigue)
When racing, my left calf has historically been tending to cramp towards the end of the races. After being aware of the imbalance, I wondered if the extra work that the left leg is doing, has an influence. So I’m now trying to focus a bit on engaging my right leg a little more and lately have had some succes with postponing and even sometimes avoiding the cramps.


#20

Yes, a TSB graph would be great, now outdoor and future workouts have been added to the calendar. This way it’s quite easy to avoid (or plan) over training when planning ahead, as well as identifying if you are currently “digging a hole” of fatigue.
If TSB gets added, It’d basically save me the need for my TP subscription.
Or @Nate, is there a chance that you’ll open up for Golden Cheetah to import the calendar? So we could do all those fancy calculations there :slight_smile: