Ultra endurance liquid (Hammer Perpetuem)


#1

I have just purchased an endurance drink/food called Hammer Perpetuem which has complexe carbs, protein, electrolytes etc. Just curious to know whether anyone has tried it or something similar like ensure. Thanks.


#2

I have used Perpetuem in the past and currently have some I use for longer rides. I originally bought it because I have found I need some protein for any longer ride. I also use Accelerade for similar reasons. It works for me. I do find the Perpetuem can be hard to mix and hard to clean out of bottles.
I will say when this supply is gone I’m going to look at Skratch and Osmo and do some research into the whole 3% solution thing before buying again. If I go that route I’ll get my protein from real food.


#3

I’ve used most Hammer products and have found success with their products. My body accepts it well I haven’t needed to explore elsewhere. I used Perpetuem during my MTB 100 (Lumberjack 100) this past June. It was a 9 hour race for me and Perpetuem worked great as my primary fuel source (added some gels as well). However, Perpetuem does not have enough electrolytes and you will need to additionally supplement with Hammer Fizz or other electrolyte intake. Perpetuem is made for fueling longer events/workouts usually going past 3 hours. For shorter and more intense workouts lasting 60-90 minutes Hammer Heed is a better fuel source.

From Hammer:
Races/workouts that are in the 2-3 hour range, perhaps just slightly longer, is in a “gray area” , which means that you can use either a “carb + protein” fuel (Sustained Energy or Perpetuem)
or a “carb only” fuel (HEED or Hammer Gel). The selection needs to be based on the following:

  • The type of race that you’re doing.
  • The intensity of the effort.
  • The weather and how well or poorly you’re acclimated to it.
  • The terrain

To summarize, we (HAMMER) recommend a “carb + protein” drink (Sustained Energy or Perpetuem) when exercise goes beyond two or so hours. However, come race day—when a lot of variables need to be taken into consideration—you have a lot of options to choose from when the race is in the 2-3 hour range . . . you need to go with the fuel that makes the most sense, based on the aforementioned factors/variables. If those factors do come into play, we recommend the use of Hammer Gel or HEED for a high intensity race that’s in the 2-3 hour range. If the race is going to be high intensity from the start and/or the weather is going to be very warm-to-hot, a quick-to-digest fuel like Hammer Gel or HEED may be your best choice.

CALORIC INTAKE
-Running is a more “digestively challenging” type of exercise than cycling.
-It’s a lot easier to digest calories when the pace is more relaxed.
-The hotter the weather, the more compromised the digestive system becomes.
-Doing lots of climbing usually diminishes digestive capabilities.
-If you know you’re going to be out there for more than three hours we believe your body is going to perform better if Sustained Energy or Perpetuem is used as the primary-to-sole fuel, with the occasional use of Perpetuem Solids being perfectly acceptable as well.

All this said, this is not meant to be a “set in stone” rule. Everyone is different so your fuel
selection may be different than another athlete’s.


#4

I haven’t used Hammer, but I’ve been using Tailwind’s endurance product and love it. No protein though. But I did a 5 1/2 hour hard gravel race on four bottles…no food, and was well fueled.


#5

Thanks JMM. Yeah I read it was tricky to mix alright. Going to try to mix maybe 2 scoops of perpetuem in each of 2 bottles which is 260 calories in each bottle and take them 2 bottles on a 100km cycle or bout 4 to 5 hour cycle and take it from there.


#6

Thanks MI XC. I’ll try it out. I like the idea of mixing 2 bottles for a 5 hour training ride or longer. Would be very handy. Thanks for your input.


#7

I’ve been using Hammer Nutrition products for almost 20 years now. They’re great. They were originally targeted at the ultra endurance cycling market (e.g. double centuries and longer) and with their success have expanded over the years to multiple sports and shorter durations. On the food side, I use Heed, Sustained Energy, Perpetuem and Recoverite. The website is extremely helpful with nutrition and usage information (e.g. Perpetuem for 3hr+ rides).

Regarding the comment about mixing: Hammer uses only high quality ingredients, particularly when it comes to complex carbs, as well as the proteins and fats. It takes a few shakes at the start and a shake occasionally when you are riding prior to a sip/gulp. I’m so used to it that I don’t think about it. However, if instant dissolving is important to you, and remaining as such during the ride, there are plenty of products on the market with simple carbs and sugars to choose from. My suggestion is to read the ingredients carefully and compare.


#8

Thanks Bobmac. I’m looking forward to trying it.


#9

You are welcome.

btw: The comment about Perpetuem’s electrolyte content is correct - it is not sufficient, especially if you are a heavy sweater as I am. I supplement with Endurolytes (actually Endurolyte Extreme), a great source of electrolytes in capsule form. I also use Endurolyte Extreme on all high intensity TrainerRoad workouts in order to reduce the risk of cramping.


#10

I have been using it last 3 years for Ironman races and long rides. It works for me.
Regarding the electrolytes, it is true that it is low. I usually add 1 Endurolytes capsul which i cut it open and mix in the bottle for every 2 scoop. So i don’t worry about the electrolytes in take. If it hot or i feel low on electolytes, i take the capsul.
It is great to have one bottle nutrition for entire ride. You just need to figure out how often you consume it.


#11

Perpetuem has worked well for me, although it does cause a small bit of stomach distress and so in the past I learned to have one 24oz bottle with Perpeteum, and one bottle with water.

About 4 months ago I decided to try Gu Roctane in both bottles, and a munching on a protein bar. Seems to work just as well, and easier on stomach.


#12

Everyone is different, but Hammer says that you need to drink/hydrate separate from the Hammer bottle.

Im doing two, two hour bottles. One of Hammer as food and separate bottle for hydration.

We plan our group rides with a toliet/water stop at about two hours. Carry more hammer in zip lock bag and make up second bottle on the ride.

Like all things, you need to train it first before using it in a key event.


#13

Mix perpetuem the night before and leave it in the fridge. A couple of shakes and it is fully dissolved and you get cold bottles to take on the road. Ive never had any digestion issues.


#14

Cheers jmm. I assume it would be ok to eat real food for the 1st half of the race and then change to perpetuem for later in the event when it’s harder to stomach real food. Also, Did you add much extra workouts to your TR plans for longer stuff.


#15

I think fueling during activity is highly individual as everyone’s stomach is different. Personally I like eat small amounts of real food on the bike starting at about 1 hour in. I find that eating a small amount every 30 min or so works for me. I use a combination of gels, blocks and bars. For real food I like Clif bars and honey stinger waffles added to clif blocks, clif gels and sport beans as my go to fuel.
I’m fairly new to TR so my previous events used unstructured training. Which led to injuries and not being prepared like I wanted to. Which is why I now use TR to guide my training. I have some longer events planned next year so we will see…


#16

@Skydiver18 As I mentioned above, I have been using Hammer products for about 20 years.
Some years ago I used to prepare the bottles the night before (as you mentioned) and happened to call the company about another product and mentioned that. My recollection was they said that it looses its effectiveness (or was subject to some other issue, such as spoiling - I don’t recall) by doing so and that they should be used within a few hours of mixing. I went to the website to see if I could easily find that info and couldn’t. You may want to call the company and ask them about that.


#17

hi @bobmac

thanks for taking the time to reach out. While I haven’t spoken to the company directly on their web site it states the below. It most definatly spoils over time and especially in warm conditions but Ive found refrigerated and keeping chilled has worked for me so far…

’ Q: If I mix Sustained Energy or Perpetuem and keep it in the refrigerator for a day or two, will it break down any of the desired properties due to sitting for a while and not being used right away?

A: The effectual benefits (“desired properties”) are not lost, but the l-carnitine in both products may deteriorate somewhat, forming crystals within the mix since it is very hygroscopic (has an affinity for water). The deterioration, if any, is minimal in 48 hours post-mix, refrigerated. However, for best results we recommend using Sustained Energy or Perpetuem as soon as possible after mixing.’

Can be found on this Link


#18

@Skydiver18 Thanks for the info and link.

FWIW: When I want it chilled/cold on a warm day, I add crushed ice and shake - it seems to work.

Btw: I spoke to Steve Born a few months back about several of their nutrition products and supplements - extremely knowledgeable and really nice guy.


#19

My kids would love this interpretation of real food :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: