VO2Max, 30/15 or Classic 3-8m

Depends on the plan, the goals of the plan and where in the progression they are.

Chad is a big believer in short/short VO2 Intervals as being a more humane way to train an athlete.

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thanks @Nate_Pearson!

donā€™t limit yourself by age my friend! Take the ā€œas a 55yoā€ out of your vernacular. ā€œAs a kickass experienced athlete, I do a customized Bluebellā€¦ā€

Just my two cents! Keep crushing it!

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which do you prefer doing more? which ones are more challenging? 2-3m or 8m?

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that was my thought too re: tabatas at 30/30ā€¦go ALL out, not vo2max.

the shorter ones being easier seems to be a common thread; maybe not a bad thing from what some literature states for adaptation, but I am still a classic style guy for the mental grit you need to bring in order to complete them!

thanks so much for your reply!

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agree 100%, thanks!

thanks! I did see this blog and appreciate you passing it along. Cheers!

Hahaha. I do a customized bluebell at 115% because I know thatā€™s what Iā€™m capable of not because of any age restrictions :+1:

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amen dude. And FWIW, in one of my first races in 2009 I came in 13th and couldnā€™t believe how many 50+ beat me. I was like WTH. I hope to still be riding and active like everyone here that is 50+. Seriously, keep crushing it dude, itā€™s inspiring.

Brendan

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IMO, those are the racers whoā€™ve got the skills nailed down and know how to use their ā€˜bulletsā€™. Round this way, the Masters fields are hard and ruthless.

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Assuming this is an open questionā€¦:

30/30 etc are mentally easy to complete and provide a sense of satisfaction. You just keep ticking them off until the full bout is done. I think this combination of useful work, relative ease of compliance and sense of satisfaction is a big driver in training plan use. I find 30/30 and variants to be a lot of fun on the trainer.

2-3 min VO2 work, assuming something like 2 min for 10 reps, 3 min for 8 reps is significantly harder than 30/30s mentally. But the intervals arenā€™t so long that you really enter an extended pain state or mental stress state. These are hard but not brutal and I know I can do the workout so I get it done.

3-8 min work we enter a very different territory. Mentally these are long enough where there is plenty of time to want to quit or convince yourself you canā€™t do it. There is a huge difference between 3-5 min and 6-8 min. 4x4 is a classic because people can do it. 5x5 starts to be an upper limit for many riders I know closely or work with. 4 x 8 is really damn hard. When folks started trying to do 4x8 twice a week when ā€œpolarizedā€ became a thing, I think we saw how few folks stuck with it (different thread - no drift intended).

I think for the longer VO2 work people tend to do these as hill repeats not because itā€™s easier to make power on a gradient, but because mentally you can pick spots on the hill as ā€œmarkersā€ and use that as strong motivation. Sure you can do that on flats too but itā€™s not as easy as on a hill.

Looking back at my notes from 10 years of power data my comments from VO2 workouts look something like this:

30/30 workouts uniformly have comments like: felt great, good workout, legs were strong today

1-3 min workouts: Legs felt good; hard but felt strong today; making good progress on the plan

4-6 min workouts: Felt good but these were tough; Not sure I was going to finish but made it to the end; really tired today; Definitely felt that one!!; and the classic: oooofffff !!!

6-8 min (typically 4 x 8): Good hill repeats, really tough workout today; glad to complete it; Just made #2 and Failed on #3; Made it through but needed full 1:1 recovery between bouts; Are you kidding me???; How is 105% so damn hard - its only 8 min???; Maybe this bike thing is a bad ideaā€¦; I really suck and should take up foosball.

-Mark

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The question I really have though is surely, itā€™s better to do the longer intervals than the shorter ones.

Iā€™d rather be able to hold 120% for 5 minutes than even 30/30s for 10 minutes. Surely the former brings more adaptions and forces your body to learn to work with high amounts of lactate for longer.

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For me personally, itā€™s about where I am in my season and what races Iā€™ve got on the horizon. If Iā€™m racing a crit series, Iā€™d focus on short duration 30/15s or 40/20s. Iā€™d be aiming for repeatability.

I just did my first crit last weekend. My love of 30/30s didnā€™t save me from being dropped :joy:

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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Try a progression:

30/30 @ 120%
30/30 @ 130%
30/20 @ 130%
30/15 @ 120%
30/15 @ 130%

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I just did Rundle tonight. I had to really search the TR library to find a 40/20 workout. I prefer this style to 30/30s or the longer 3+ minute ones. I went a little over target and did them around 125%.
Great workout though.
Edit; I got a little excited in the first sets, and had to take it down a notch or I was gonna blow!

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Scoffs in coach.

Last Tuesday was 9x2.5 @ 120%. Hard, but felt pretty good.

Last Thurs was 6x7 at 105-108%. Much harder from my perspective, even though itā€™s not much over threshold. ~40 minutes in lower V02 territory feels like itā€™s putting some good stress in the system, but itā€™s a grind for sure.

Iā€™m doing sustained power build right now and Iā€™m not seeing any of this short duration stuff yet, but I think some shorter intervals pop up during specialty.

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Will try 30/15s at 120% today as when I do 30/30, Iā€™m quite happy to do it at 150%.

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