Wake Up Trainerroad!

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#262

So here’s where doing what the crew talks about frequently on the podcast comes in - that is, unless you’re making a living doing this, try training a different way or for different events. Odds are, if training becomes stale, that means your goals are probably stale too. If you’re a fondo guy and do SSB ->SPB->Century for five years, yeah… boooooooooooring. Often what’s needed to break plateaus is a new stimulus, so that type of athlete might benefit more from a General or even a Short Power build instead, where they push limits higher and adapt to higher overall power outputs. And it’d be more “fun” because it’s fresh.

Frankly, I think anyone who does any sport the same way for 5-7 years eventually gets bored with it and/or plateaus if they’re being consistent with training, regardless of if the training apparatus is fresh or not.


#263

Changing the training (stimuli) is a great point. This is a place where TR can absolutely offer additional plans and stay fresh. Say 80:20 vs SST. With the number of users (and serious trainers and racers) would fairly quickly be able to generate data as to which was better, worse, equivalent, and suggest what different riders could do to improve.

Since they can see completion of workouts and could include some data questionnaires there is real potential for TR to do real world experiments and not just provide plans and a cool interface but generate data to shape training plans.

How about this in the future:

“TR-BOT noticed you’ve done SST-Sustained Power Build-40K TT. Your FTP and endurance looks good but you’ve ignored the 1-5 min power. Consider this 6 week Short Power Build plan for your next cycle to address this weakness”

or

“TR-BOT noticed you rely on SST training and your A-Races are in July. While effective, our data and research shows mixing it up provides a benefit. TR-BOT suggests trying a 12 week 80:20 program November-January in advance of your next season”

I also want a tricorder…

FWIW and by way of levity, I’m in my 50s and been racing since early teens. Mountain, gravel, road, track, cross. I absolutely stink at making two wheels go fast and am never going to get paid. But it’s still fun. As is talking about training and racing. Having explored the different disciplines though, I’m settled on one and trying to eek out every possible performance gain. And the clock is ticking.

-MC


#264

Fully agreed. I’ve been a runner for years, and have shifted training programs (meaning the entire thing, from one way to a complete other way) every 3 years approx, and changed events (from 5k and 10k to 10k to halfs) over time, to freshen up what I do. And I’m back more seriously into cycling… because I can’t stand running around the same roads yet another year. So you will get what telecom operators call churn - customers moving from TR to SF to Zwift and back - as they try to get a new picture on life.


#266

Yes, that, and a way to compare workouts side by side. In other words be able to see the details of Baxter and Colosseum on the same page as you would comparing products online.


#267

GT Bay area


#268

I’ve swapped between Trainer Road and Zwift a lot in the last couple of years for various reasons and there are a few things that I want to comment on in this thread (currently main subscription is TR)

  1. If you don’t want to look at other riders back sides in Zwift, don’t, run Zwift in the background (behind say Netflix) and use the companion app to give a very TR like experience
  1. Pro’s wouldn’t use Zwift … I actually think it’s more likely to be the other way around, I doubt a pro would have any interest in the TR training plans and are more likely to have their coach send them the workout via trainingpeaks (respected training app) something that Zwift does and TR doesn’t do (or just e-mail the the zwift workout file)
  2. Zwift is a toy and TR a tool … both can run a workout, there is no workout in TR that can’t be done in Zwift and vice verse, so it’s not so much which is the tool, just how you use it, even in workout mode they both run erg and have buttons to change %erg … it just comes down to the implementation of

Why I left TR, the Training plans didn’t fit my phsical needs, so I went over to Zwift because I could do the same workout in Zwift with a little adjustment, with their very quick and easy to use work out editors, you even do the edit on your pc and it’s sinks said workout to phone e.t.c

Why I came back to TR, the calendar feature, made doing the adjustments I was doing in Zwift easier for upcoming weeks and plan the TS (I’m not a sheep and don’t follow the TR training plans blindly) … that’s the entire reason. If it wasn’t for this I would currently be doing SSB2 in Zwift … and I get a lot less drop outs in TR (great work on that front)


#269

I’ve been wondering when someone would point this out. TR is “the” app for the time crunched amateur cyclist, but the attitude that it’s the more “serious” option for training in general is completely baseless.


#270

Pros do use Zwift, lots of them.

Not to discredit TR, but I haven’t seen Cav or the like touted as users. Lionel Sanders does all of his training exclusively on Zwift.


#271

The Zwift marketing team saw you coming :wink:


#272

Belittling a comment doesn’t make it wrong does it ? (see my post for my comment on the matter … if it matters)


#273

I’d be curious to know how many pros are using Zwift regularly who aren’t being paid to do so.


#274

This is the box that I have found myself in.

3 years of SSB > SPB > Century and forever stuck around 275/290W - 3.9/4.1W/Kg despite weeks of suffering and being consistant with not missing workouts.

Funnily enough this year I am doing Short Power > Criterium just to see what happens.


#275

Oh I agree, I don’t think that you can base what “best” by if the pro’s use it … they are pro’s after all and the definition of that is that they are paid

The only point I was making (as I have already stated) is that a pro do their training specific to the workout prescribed by their couch, which would probably just as likely be Zwift as TR (see my original post) or something similar (such as tacx) that can link to trainingpeaks, but being pro’s, I would probably more expect that to be in a training camp in the Mediterranean … and I really don’t think they would care what software they are using, just the training plan they are using … which wouldn’t be a TR one


#276

I thought I would add my grain of salt.

I’m using both TR and Zwift after spending about a month on zwift alone.

Here’s what happenned…

In september I was looking for a way to train during the long and cold winter here in Quebec. At first I chose zwift. There was a couple of people in there I knew. A was seduced by the idea of their training plan.

So I strarted doig the build me up plan. Did it for 5 weeks and it worked wonders. Week after week my performance would go up and up and up. From 121 FTP to 154 in just a couple of week. And one day I couldn’t do the intervals. Not even one at vo2max. I thought I was just too tired took a couple of days of break. Retried. Not one interval AGAIN. I retested my FTP it was even below what I had started with 120 watts. I knew something very wrong was going on but could not get answer from zwift. The more I trained the more my FTP went down. Down to 107.

I started looking for training plans with more sensible progression. I checked SF and was seduced by the 4DP concept, but not the culture and not the vids and not the on screen messages saying hammer time when I started a 75 watts interval. I checked TR too. Looked into the whole plans and thought ok these guy know what they are doing.

I still use both TR and Zwift when I train. I hate riding 2+ hours facing a screen so I figured out I might as well make those ride more social. I get friends on Discord and we chat while we ride. I did the low volume traditional base. And it’s going good. in 3 months I went from 107 FTP to 134.

And now I think I’m good for doing a full cycle of SSB, build and specialty.

Now my two cents is this. The crowd interested in TR vs SF vs Zwift vs Fulgaz is not the same. OP is right in a sense. You guys have an amazing model for training. and to me the way to go in the way of development should be in customization of training. It’s the SF promise. But they fail to deliver in my sense. But nowaday with technology development I absolutely see no reasons you guys can’t develop an AI that would taylor each training plan and workout to an individual.

And answer for non trainers the stuff we need to know. For an exemple, how many TSS should I do now? After recovering with a full tradional base plan how should I go about progressing? Directly to build low or medium volume or an SSB if so low volume, medium volume. And how do I integrate my other activies, occasionnal Race, weekly martial art training. And what happens if I train to my failure point. Why wouldn’t the next workout take that into account next time? And in my progression looks much faster/slower than expected why not build that into the system? Example: From week 1 to week 3 my average HR workout to workout dropped by 3 beats per minutes. So the Mount Fields was noticeably easier than Slide Mountain even while I manually increased my FTP by 7 watts because I didn’t feel the was much work being done.

All this could be handled by a personnal coach. And going this direction for TR seems to me the right direction especially with all the user data TR already have.

The alternative for the guy who either can’t or won’t hire a personnal coach is spending hours upon hours of research to figure out what you guy already know in order to make the small decisions TR could make for the users.

Didier Bonneville-Roussy


#277

I’ve seen quite a few and notice that a lot of the stronger Cat 1/2 in the north east seem to do A LOT of Zwift miles as well.

Not an endorsement, just observation.


#278

I’ve been training the same way (not with TR) for years. With no races on the plan this year, I’m flip flopping between whether I do Short, General, or Sustained. Sustained is definitely the right choice for my normal races, but I kind of want to play around with short. I may split the difference.


#279

#280

What he said +1. I’m Very new to Trainer Road but it’s definitely a training tool not a game. No product the can afford not to develop In this global economy but I believe TR I’s about the best all round online training subscription (cycling/Tri before some one points it out) that you can get before you go and take on a physical coach. The only thing I’d like to seeat the moment is some way to under stand the analysis of my rides so I can better tailor my training plan to suit.


#281

No! TR is a serious training platform, not a game-like social tool. I like TR how it is, the analytics, calendar, podcast, and forum are superb.


#282

If you are looking to compare workouts or even the entire training plans I open TR in two different browsers (Firefox and Chrome), then have one on left side of screen and one on the right. I know that’s not the same as analyzing finished workouts but works well when planning your schedule.