Zwift Secures $120m Investment - What does it all mean Basil?

Don’t get me wrong I actually like Zwift, I just think the idea that Zwift can tap into the growth that esports has seen in the past 5-10 years is crazy. My guess is Zwift’s demographics are totally wrong.

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I used to be into video games but strangely, since pretty much every game has went to online I’ve lost interest. Gamed for close to 30 years but lucky if I play a couple of times a year now despite my son having dozens of top titles.
To contradict my reason for stopping gaming I have to say that I am addicted to Zwift because of the interaction with others. So much so that I have only cycled outdoors around 100 miles in 4 years. Zwift just makes it easy to get in a decent hours cycling and I actually look forward to getting on the bike.
TR is a fantastic product but I hardly use it at all now. I love doing the group training rides on Zwift.
I think the graphics are more than adequate.
I also subscribe to TDA and their videos are stunning but I’ve probably only used it around a dozen times because I find 20 minutes feels like an eternity so having amazing visuals isn’t essential.

For me, I’d always recommend Zwift to people but having another app such as TR to use as well is probably the ideal scenario.

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That’s the beauty of Zwift and TrainerRoad, each are appealing depending on the person and I don’t think they’re really competing against each other. Apples and Oranges.

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I run Zwift and TR together every time I am on the trainer. I enjoy them both, but TR runs everything for me and is the priority. Zwift is purely for visuals and a little motivation (leveling up, challenges, etc) I tried racing a few times, but they are all basically just time trials and when I’m on the trainer I want intervals and structure. I used to free ride around Watopia on EZ days, but I’m kinda over that now and would rather just do something like Baxter.

I hope to keep using both as long as the monthly cost doesn’t get too crazy.

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Back to responding to the original question: What does all of this mean [to TR] . . .

The runaway leader in indoor cycling is Peloton . . . and by a very wide margin. As one indication of their success to date, in their last round of financing, Peloton raised $500 Million on a $4 Billion valuation. They have a very deep and experienced management team that runs their business extremely well. While not a direct competitor to TrainerRoad, it is highly likely that many users on the fringe would choose Peloton if only due to brand awareness of Peloton vs TR.

Zwift is a direct competitor of TR and represents a very serious threat to the company over the long term. Zwift has a clear leadership position in indoor racing and is expanding very rapidly in structured training. Their current training offering isn’t on the level of TrainerRoad, but the recent investment represents a major opportunity to do so if that is part of their corporate plans. Also, as Highland Europe, the lead investor in Zwift’s recent B round financing, is a spinoff of the highly successful Highland Capital Partners U.S., Zwift has access to significantly more funds than the $120M raised in this round (and $165M in total) if they continue to execute well.

So, to answer the question “What does all of this mean [to TR]?”

  1. It would be quite surprising if Nate and his leadership team were not very concerned with the the recent Zwift investment and “racing” to analyze and answer this very question.

  2. IMO, TrainerRoad needs a corporate strategic partner. The small company, go-it-alone strategy isn’t sustainable in a large, fast growing market like indoor cycling. And being 3rd fiddle [to Peloton and Zwift] in this market is a tough pitch to potential investors.

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Interesting thoughts, @bobmac.

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Must admit - never heard of Peloton - what do they do?

I was a member of TR several years ago, then moved to zwift and really enjoyed it and found it engaging, especially the races…but the main issues for me were:

I know it’s only a game…but sheer amount of cheating on races with people in wrong categories and clearly wrong weights drove me mad, especially as zwift themselves refused to do anything- just relied on volunteer zwiftpower. To me the racing is their usp and to basically ignore the integrity of this was poor to me

The fact that if their servers died (happened fairly often to me) or if my internet was down, then I couldn’t train. Love TR for this. I can train on my laptop with no internet at all.

I did find zwift super engaging and enjoyed it…but at the end of the day I train to be quicker in real life races and zwift just wasn’t making me faster, TR does. The podcasts are superb and it was those which engaged me and made me return to TR and never looked back (been back on TR about 10months now and recently changed to annual subscription), especially with grandfathered pricing from nate, rather than regular zwift rises.

Basically for me, to train I feel TR is miles ahead…but for someone just starting off or not interested in racing then think zwift was excellent.

Really surprised peloton are so huge. I’d never heard of them until this thread, and it looks like they’re much more into hardware than TR or Zwift. Do you have to buy their bike to use their software?

As for Zwift, I can see them expanding into other areas. What they basically have is a game system using a big novelty controller (like a more complex version of the Mario Kart steering wheel on wii). I’m sure there is lots of scope for other controllers in the game.

Peleton have just started advertising in the UK. The bike is very expensive to buy though.

They have sponsored TdF coverage for a while I think but it is a really niche product imho.

Saw a Peloton “pop up” stand in the middle of St Pancras station a few weeks ago. Their marketing in the UK is definitely on the up.

Wait a few months after Xmas, there will be a bunch of used Peletons for sale :rofl:

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No matter the virtual software one uses it comes down to the workout. You get what you put into it! E- sport gaming is evolving. Whether it be TR, Zwift, Peleton…etc, it will continue to evolve. Doesn’t matter if you cheat your fitness, it’s you that knows where you stand. Just ride and build fitness. If you have a goal and E-sport helps you build fitness your making progress. If you decide to show your fitness in an environment on the road or in the virtual world the true numbers will come out. After all, isn’t some level of virtual training or road riding have a hint of dreaming!

If you’re in to spinning instead of training (nothing wrong with that if so), prefer the “live class” vibe and have a solid chunk of change to get started on a bike that will never see a road or path, Peloton could be a good option.

Their cheapest option for intro to their system is over $2,000. The bike comes with a one year warranty. And there is a $39 monthly subscription fee on top of it all.

Provided the bike doesn’t break between the first and second year, the monthly cost averaged over two years is $132.54 a month. Makes TR’s and Zwift’s monthly fees a bit more appealing all of a sudden huh?!

Peleton offers the Digital option, that does not require their bike, so you can grab any spin bike (new or used) or even use bike and trainer.

It is the low cost option.

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The classes are £19.49 a month in the UK which isn’t that bad a price. It does seem to be well marketed and has the advantage of offering yoga , strength and other types of classes. I could see that joining in classes could become quite addictive and of course you save on gym membership.
The real killer seems to be the cost of the bike at £2K.

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@stevious Most of their customer base has purchased the Peloton bike (my wife for example) and pays a substantial subscription fee of approximately $40/month (less with annual subscription). They do have an iPhone app (~$19/month) that is becoming very popular.

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The cost of the bike is definitive prohibitive for many. However, these folks, such as my wife, paid upwards of $100+/month on gym membership. In addition to cost analysis, the Peloton experience is 2nd to none, and as such, it is addictive (she went from 1x/wk at gym/Soul Cycle to 3x+ at home). And, yes @John_Hallas, you are correct about the other non-bike exercises. And for those that can’t afford the bike, there’s the app (more recent addition) that seems to be growing fast. And, more recently, they added the Treadmill product, that also seems to be taking off.

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To be honest, I use both. I use Zwift when I’m running on a treadmill to making the time go by and I ride on Zwift while doing a TR workout. This as well makes the time go by and feel more interactive but I do believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that TR is the better platform for serious cycling improvements. The support and coaching guidance is unparalleled for the monthly cost. I also think that TR is doing what they feel is most important to build their business model. Keep up the good work TR.

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That is exactly what I said back in 1997 to our company’s investment banker about a company that he and his team were financing that was going to sell books online. You may have heard of them . . . Amazon :slight_smile:

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